Yard ballast era mid to late 1980's

[cp7400]

My thanks to everyone for your help and the excellent background information. I now have a variety of solutions and possibilities.

Roger

[cx500]

The cinder ballast, where used, is likely still there, but not too visible.  Maintenance of yard tracks tends to be reactive rather than proactive, so unless there has been significant re-arrangement of the track layout only the bare minimum happens.  Over the years the gradual accumulation of windblown dirt, vegetation and other debris will gradually replace the cinders as the visible top surface, together with some new ballast for spot resurfacing.  Not all yards used cinder ballast either; many used pit run gravel instead.  There was only a limited supply of cinders compared with the large volumes that would be required to do every yard.  Of course by about 1960 the source vanished.

John

[BRAKIE]

As another thought you may want to add some dirty dirt in your yard as well..

Dirty dirt is a catch name for dirt that is black from various things such as coal dust,oil leaks,rain washed substances etc.

[cp7400]

Good point about the cinder ballast not being replenished over time Dave. Your article on using ashes is intriguing and looks quite effective.

I had read that using Z scale ballast is maybe too fine and slurry like but not having any on hand I really do not know. So I ground down some fine brown WS ballast this morning and it is not such a time consuming chore after all. Using the mortise and pestle gave me quite a bit of control on how ultra fine I wanted the N scale yard ballast. It actually worked quite well and I ended up with ballast which was about half the size of the 'Fine' stuff from the WS container. (My wife may get gritty spices after this but all in the name of accurate modelling 

The colour changed slightly, a little lighter but not a big deal. I tried a small area to see what it looks like with an N scale figure for comparison. Not bad so far. Back to the grind 

[dknelson]

Not long ago I was exploring the site of an industrial siding in the city I am modeling, and was interested to see that there was still a quantity of cinder ballast, in addition to some rock, that remained, and that it was still reasonably (but not totally) effective in discouraging plant growth.  However one of the features of cinder ballast back in the days of steam is that its extremely low cost (free) was the reason it worked because of the need to be replenishing and replacing it so often, far more often than any other kind of ballast. 

Thus in a busy yard, unless there was a good reason for there to be a fresh supply of cinders nearby, most railroads would have long since needed to replenish the cinder ballast by the 1960s, much less the 1980s, and over time I would think the ballast would be almost entirely rock or stone except for the more marginal yards. 

Here in Milwaukee, the CNW's Butler Yard by the 1980s was mostly ballasted with small chips of the railroad's famous Pink Lady ballast -- the unusable leftovers from main line ballasting.  The advantage was the small chips made for a fairly smooth and even walking surface for the yard crews, and it also discouraged plant growth in the yard.

As to cinder ballast, now that I see that at least one siding that I intend to model had some amount of cinder ballst on it in my era, I have experimented with various materials and have concluded that finely sifted fireplace ash captures the look of cinder ballast pretty well.  I wrote up the methods in the NMRA Midwest region Waybill:

http://www.mwr-nmra.org/region/waybill/waybill20103afall.pdf

Dave Nelson

[BRAKIE]

cp7400

I wonder if grinding down WS fine brown ballast in a mortise and pestle will give me the finer screenings you mention?

As a thought.

Have you looked into Z Scale ballast? That might work for fine yard ballast for  N.

[charlie9]

even though steam operations had ended, many railroads still had coal fired steam and power plants at major terminals and shop locations.  these generated a fair amount of cinders if they were coal fired.  i remember the IC using cinders from these operations up into the late 60's.

the absolute best cinder ballast seems to be slag from copper refining operations.  the residual trace of copper stops any and all plant life from growing up through the cinders.  if you use that stuff for parking lots and driveways, you will never see a weed.

Charlie

[cp7400]

Thanks for all the replies. I have a disused roundtable at the end of the yard (stub end) and a new loco shed off to one side for diesel servicing. The roundtable and shed each have their own  track leading from a service track, which in turn leads from my A/D track.

Based on the replies I think a base layer of cinders ballast might work with an overlay of dark brown ballast. More cinders than brown ballast near and approaching the roundtable and more brown than cinders for the new shed. Then maybe the four yard tracks a mix of both.

I wonder if grinding down WS fine brown ballast in a mortise and pestle will give me the finer screenings you mention? My layout is N scale so might be worth a shot but the yard is nearly 7 feet long (which includes a 36" lead) so I'll be at it for weeks

[BRAKIE]

dehusman

  None of the yards at which I worked had cinder ballast (TX, AR, UT), however the yards in the area I model did

When I went to work on the PRR in Columbus in '66 the yards was still 60% cinders and 40% dirty dirt..On the Chessie(C&O) at Russell it was 60% ballast and 40% dirty dirt.

[dehusman]

Areas that used to have cinders will have a mix as mentioned, areas where ore smelting was big may have ore slag (the SP used copper slag for ballast).  Slag is better than cinders for ballast, its usually harder and less likely to crush or break up.  Basalt or Granite is about the best.  Roads that didn't operate a lot of coal fired engines or have a lot of smelters would used chat or screening for yard ballast.  None of the yards at which I worked had cinder ballast (TX, AR, UT), however the yards in the area I model did (PA, DE).

[BRAKIE]

dehusman

Yes sorta.

If the yard had been ballasted  with cinders and not upgraded then it would still have a lot of cinders.

If the yard had been upgraded or maintained after the 1960's then it would probably be covered with stone ballast.  Normally yard ballast is a finer screenings than road ballast because the screenings are easier to walk on.

Dave,NS Benson yard here in Bucyrus is a mix of fine ballast and cinders.Of course it used mostly for holding cars for Transco Railway Products..

[cv_acr]

CN and CP used a lot of slag ballast on yards and mainlines during the '60s through '80s. This was waste material from the nickel mining area around Sudbury and is a dark brownish black colour. Many CN and CP lines still have a lot of slag ballast on them still today, although slag ballast is no longer used.

[dehusman]

Yes sorta.

If the yard had been ballasted  with cinders and not upgraded then it would still have a lot of cinders.

If the yard had been upgraded or maintained after the 1960's then it would probably be covered with stone ballast.  Normally yard ballast is a finer screenings than road ballast because the screenings are easier to walk on.

[cp7400]

Hi,

Would it be practical to still see cinder ballast used in and around a yard during the late 1980's? Freelance layout loosely based on CN.

Thanks for any advice.