I recently found a few California Zephyr cars (made by BLI) and that has prompted me to try to build a train that is kind of prototypical in its consist. One of the cars I found is the “Silver Rapids”, the car owned by, and lettered for, PRR. This limits the years I can model and I would guess the train sets I can use as well.
I have looked all over the net for a detailed consist listing but I can’t find any. The closest I have seen is a generic consist listing (http://calzephyr.railfan.net/cars/consist.html) and a set of pictures from a derailment in 1955 (http://www.californiazephyr.org/resource_library/photo_archive/albums/Sulphur.php). As far as I can tell from those pictures there were 5 cars from CB&Q and 5 from WP (where was DRGW in that consist?).
What I am looking for is an exact consist like the “City” consists that Ranks and Kratville published in their “UP Streamliner” book. If that doesn’t exist, I would at least like to know what rules governed the mix of cars from the three railroads in each train (and then, of course, the train must have the PRR car in it).
Does anybody have an idea where to look?
Gidday, perhaps these may help?.....
http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/CZ3.htm
http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/CZ1.htm
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track5/calzephyr195008.html
This won't help but is a good look at a by gone era.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruHTZ-3PrB0
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
The site you found is
http://calzephyr.railfan.net/
is probably the best on the net.
Microscale Decals has a California Zephyr set 87-108. The instructions list the cars - type, ownership and name. Their web site says it is IN STOCK, but there is also a list on the "calzephyr" site.
The number and type of cars provided by each railroad were by agreement, the cars were built specifically for the train, and placed in a pool. I don't think there were any requirements about the mix of ownership in the trains themselves.
The normal consists of the California Zephyr was 11 cars. The PRR sleeper was a CZ car and would be included in the 11, placed as indicated in the consist list instead of one of the other railroad's sleepers.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Thank you, Bear
The listing of the cars in the to set will provide some information (and may be what I have to use). The video is a really interesting one. Thanks for that link.
Per
DSchmitt,
Yes, that site is the best I have found so far, but it lacks the details.
"The number and type of cars provided by each railroad were by agreement, the cars were built specifically for the train, and placed in a pool. I don't think there were any requirements about the mix of ownership in the trains themselves."
I have only dealt with the UP City trains before and they had very detailed agreements with the railroads that pulled the train part way. I was hoping that there would be something similar for the CZ, but if there isn't I will just copy the Kato or Con-Cor consists and substituting car CZ-11.
The ownership of the cars was prorated based on the mileage run on each railroad. 27 Burlington, 24 Western Pacific, and 15 Rio Grande. Although the train sid not run on the Pennsylvania they provided one 10/6 sleeper to make through service to NDew York possible.
The expences allocated to each railroad were also based on mileage. The transcontintal 10/6 sleeper was the 10th car in the consist. This would seem to be the most logical position for the lone PRR sleeper when it was available, but since there was only 1 PRR sleeper, most of the time one of the other railroads sleepers would be in this position. I don't know whether or not the PRR sleeper was used only in this position.
The coaches had three different interior color schemes. They were placed in a specific order in the consist. The first coach brown tones, 2nd coach blue/green, 3rd coach reds . The colors are given in the book CZ The Story of The California Zephyr by Karl R. Zimmermann, but there is no info on which car name had which scheme.
Each Vista dome had a different mural portraying the country served by the train.
The rear portion of the Dome-Buffet-Lounge was a 15-berth (5-3 tier bunks) dormitory with shower and toilet facilities and 2 private rooms (1 for the steward, the hostess) for the train crew . This seperated the "low class" in the front of the train from the "elite" pasengers in the rear.
Thank you DSchmitt for a very interesting explanation. It appears that the Kato consist is what I will be using. It also seems, according to the site you referenced earlier, that the foreign 10-6 was always car CZ-11 (10th car).
Some thingsare found more in print than on the web.
Car Names, Numbers and Consists ed. by Robert J. Wayner. 1972, Wayner Publications, New York. 249p.
"This book is a record of the streamlined and lightweight passenger-train cars built and operated in the United States."
Organized railroad by railroad, listing car numbers and specifications as they were built and the consist where cars were built for use in a specific train.
Has an entire section on California Zephyr.
Limitation: does not cover heavyweight cars operated at the same ime and in the same trains as the streamlined cars. With emphasis on car building and acquisition, does not cover much of changes in usage and consist of cars after the original delivery.
leighant Some thingsare found more in print than on the web. Car Names, Numbers and Consists ed. by Robert J. Wayner. 1972, Wayner Publications, New York. 249p. "This book is a record of the streamlined and lightweight passenger-train cars built and operated in the United States." Organized railroad by railroad, listing car numbers and specifications as they were built and the consist where cars were built for use in a specific train. Has an entire section on California Zephyr. Limitation: does not cover heavyweight cars operated at the same ime and in the same trains as the streamlined cars. With emphasis on car building and acquisition, does not cover much of changes in usage and consist of cars after the original delivery.
Available used through Amazon.com $40.00 and up
The basic California Zephyr consist starting in 1948 was as follows:
1- Baggage
3 - Dome Coaches
1- Dome/Lounge/Dorm
1 - Diner
1 - 16 open section Sleeper(later converted to a coach)
1 - 6-5 Sleeper
3 - 10-6 Sleepers
1 - Dome/Obs
Total - 12 car train. 6 complete sets were built. CB&Q got 3, WP got 2, and DRGW got 1. The actual division between WP/DRGW was 1 less car for WP, and 1 extra for DRGW. CBQ bought 'extra' protection cars for the consist in the basic initial purchase. CBQ later purchased extra cars in the mid-50's to provide extra cars for heavy seasonal traffic. All cars were built by Budd.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
marthastrainyardI would at least like to know what rules governed the mix of cars from the three railroads in each train (and then, of course, the train must have the PRR car in it).
The east coast pass through car PRR was usually the sleeper right in front of the observation car. As near as I can tell, the reason was that this position made switching in Chicago easier.
A time indicator is if the roof of the Silver Rapids is black or not. I believe it started silver and for an unknown to me reason was painted black later on.
FYI It was not always the silver one that matched the set. I've got many pictures of a normal PRR maroon car in the trainset.
DSchmitt The coaches had three different interior color schemes. They were placed in a specific order in the consist. The first coach brown tones, 2nd coach blue/green, 3rd coach reds . The colors are given in the book CZ The Story of The California Zephyr by Karl R. Zimmermann, but there is no info on which car name had which scheme.
All the information needed to figure out which color was in what car name is located below in the table found in the following webpage http://calzephyr.railfan.net/cars/cars.html :
Assuming the domes with the 1 after them were just after the baggage, they would have had the brown interiors. The dome-coaches with the 2 after them had the conductors window in the second position after the baggage would have had the green/blue interiors. All other dome coaches would have the red interiors.
jrbernier The basic California Zephyr consist starting in 1948 was as follows: 1- Baggage 3 - Dome Coaches 1- Dome/Lounge/Dorm 1 - Diner 1 - 16 open section Sleeper(later converted to a coach) 1 - 6-5 Sleeper 3 - 10-6 Sleepers 1 - Dome/Obs Total - 12 car train. 6 complete sets were built. CB&Q got 3, WP got 2, and DRGW got 1. The actual division between WP/DRGW was 1 less car for WP, and 1 extra for DRGW. CBQ bought 'extra' protection cars for the consist in the basic initial purchase. CBQ later purchased extra cars in the mid-50's to provide extra cars for heavy seasonal traffic. All cars were built by Budd. Jim
According to the CZ wiki, the CB&Q, D&RGW and WP christened "The most talked about train in America" on March 19, 1949 with the first departure the following day. The original train consist's was 11 cars longl It became 12 cars long when the 6/5 sleepers were added in 1951, According to the virtual museum as:
Original 1949 consist - (1)Baggage car-(3)Dome Chair Coaches-(1)Dome-Buffet-Lounge-(2)10/6 Sleepers-(1)Diner-(1)16Section Sleeper-(1)10/6 Sleeper-(1)Dome Observation-Lounge
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
marthastrainyardthat has prompted me to try to build a train that is kind of prototypical in its consist.
TRAIN #1 TRAIN #2Baggage Silver Moose Silver SquirrelDome Coach (WC) Silver Mine Silver CertificateDome Coach Sliver Claim Silver BulletDome Coach (conductor) Silver Stallion Silver HorseshoeDome Buffet Lounge Silver Saloon Silver CanteenDiner Silver Chuck Wagon Silver TriangleSleeper 10-6 Silver Atoll Silver MesaSleeper 6-5 Silver Flicker Silver CondorSleeper 16 Silver Ponderosa Silver SequoiaSleeper 10-6 not in this train Silver SierraSleeper 10-6 Silver Hills Silver DellDome Observation Silver Constellation Silver Sunrise
With all information I am getting here and a few other pieces I am getting a somewhat clearer picture of what the train might have looked. I recently saw on the Yahoo PCL list that, at least in the beginning, they tried to have the "feature cars" (baggage, dorm lounge, diner, obs) from the same road. If all cars looked the same on the outside, this should not be difficult to do with some new decals.
Am I right in assuming that the cars of the same type, independently of the owing road, looked the same? They ought to since they were ordered in the same batch.
Right you are! I forgot that the 6-5 sleepers were in the 1952 order....
The CZ cars are from the same basic order. They followed standard CB&Q 'post-war' design with full skirting over the trucks. Most streamline cars(CB&Q 'pre-war' cars were 'scalloped' over the trucks. Also, the flutting wrapped around the roof down to though the letter board area(small fluting).
Does anyone know in the consist was the dome coach car with the conductors office and window placed in the train?
Chuck W
From http://calzephyr.railfan.net/cars/consist.html
The Order of the cars front to rear:
Baggage Express
CZ23 Coach - 48 seat chair car added in 1963 peak seasons only - converted from 16 section sleeper
CZ22 Dome Coach forward section reserved for women and children - dropped from consist in 1958 Around Aug '58 cars converted to standard CZ20
CZ21 Dome Coach - "Conductors Coach"- conductors compartment is to rear of car
CZ20 Dome Coach
Dome Buffet Lounge
Dining Car
CZ19 Sleeping Car (6DB-5)
CZ18 Sleeping Car (10-6)
CZ16 Sleeping Car (10-6)
CZ15 Sleeping Car (10-6)
CZ14 Sleeping Car (10-6) not always present in winter
CZ12 Sleeping Car (16 Section)
CZ11 Sleeping Car (10-6) - New York / San Francisco Through Sleeper
CZ10 Dome Observation Lounge