"GD" type Gondola

[Sailormatlac]

g&gfan

Matt;

Is it possible that Omer Lavallee's photos ended up with the CRHA? Perhaps the Exporail archives has them.

 

Steve 

Thanks Steve, I've just sent them a request to know a little bit more about it. I also found out CHRA had a regional division in my area, looks like I know a few guys in it. It should help.

I've checked again Jacques Pharand's book. He reference Al Paterson and Gilbert Bergeron for photo credit.

So far, I've found two other (bad) pictures of 36' wood boxcar, seemingly running on arch bar trucks in 1952. I see enough details to consider MDC/Roundhouse old time boxcar to be an almost perfect match. Other hoppers angled side views and a tank car (hard to identify any lettering on it), it seems to be a 8000 gallons car, which could be the only company's "pitch service" car.

Finally, in Omer Lavallée's brochure, I was able to located a caboose (which looks a lot like the classic 3-window Roundhouse caboose) and a clearer shot with three boxcars inthe background. One shows the reporting marks clearly and the other one has what seems to be a K Brake, a steel roof, a steel door (like a 3-part Superior door) and wood running board.

But the GD gondolas are still elusives...

Matt

[g&gfan]

Matt;

Is it possible that Omer Lavallee's photos ended up with the CRHA? Perhaps the Exporail archives has them.

 

Steve 

[Sailormatlac]

@Ed, no, I first thought Pennsylvania GD gons were AAR GD gons, but it was my own mistake.

@Wayne. It just struck me like a lightning bolt: Omer Lavallée shot QRL&P a lot over the 50's. I've got his old 1959 brochure, but I'm sure he took more pictures than what was published back then. I wonder who ended up with these archives files? CPR? A museum? Anyway, that would be worth a try I guess. I'll try to contact Thomas Grumley from Bytown Society. He's done the latest works on the line and digged outstanding pictures rarely seen. It's a shame Jacques Pharand died few years ago...

 

Matt

[7j43k]

Are you referring to the PRR hopper bottom gons?  'Cause AAR GD gons are side door, not hopper bottom.

 

Ed

[Sailormatlac]

doctorwayne

Matt, I wonder if your prototype cars are ex-CNR cars.  They cut-down a number of 36' Fowler single-sheathed boxcars, and added side doors.  These were intended for ash and cinder service.
There's an article in issue 46 (Volume 13, Number 1) of CN Lines, the magazine of the CNR Special Interest Group featuring these cars. 

Evidently, not all cars received the doors, but the ones shown had four doors per side - two near the ends aligned, more-or-less, with the trucks and one each on either side of what would have been the door when the car was a boxcar.  The doors were hinged at the top, and the cars were lined with sheet metal or had the wood sides replaced with metal.  The "Z" bracing of the original cars was re-used, albeit re-arranged to suit the placement of the doors.  The cars had peaked ends, apparently re-used from the original boxcars and all seem to have been equipped with stem-winder type brake wheels.  Some cars are shown with "K"-type brakes, while others have been upgraded (probably when they were still boxcars) with AB brake gear. 

These cars had long service lives (like much revenue equipment converted to company service) with one photo showing a cinder car (originally a boxcar) built in 1913, and retired in 1986.

Wayne

Hi Wayne,

I wouldn't be surprised they were ex-CNR. CNR was the only interchange partner to QRL&P. It's time I start to invest and get some freight car reference books...

Original GD gondolas appeared in ORER in 1918 and dissappear by 1928. They were 33' long.

The GD I'm trying to figure out appeared in large numbers in 1928. At this time, the new Limoilou Shops had just been inaugurated, maybe there's a link with this. They were also 33' long and 2'-6" high. Most cars are indicated with wood floor. I've never seen picture of these cars. I'm tracking down every picture of QRL&P I can find around. I remember seen pictures of what seem to be 40' steel gondolas.

Out of about 100 pictures from various photographers and reference books, I only found 7 pictures with freight cars. 2 are plain CNR 40' boxcars, 1 shows hoppers but from such an angle you can't hardly tell their type, 1 show a steeple cab pulling a tank car that could be the company pitch service tank (must check it again), 1 show a 36' boxcar overhauled in the shops and finally 2 pictures let you partially see hoppers behind interurban electric cars (at least, I was able to determine their type precisely with Photoshop help).

I'll take tomorrow afternoon off at work and go browse in Château-Richer archives. They are the only place I know that have official company pictures of freight cars. I also remember shots of strings of gondolas out from the stonecrusher. I was too young when I saw these pictures, but I don't remember the peaked ends. Anyway, I wouldn't trust a memory from 15 years ago. I hope I'll be able to get copies of these.

Another option is to find a way to know if CNR ever transferred such cars to QRL&P. If yes, then it would be quite easy to nail down a believable prototype.

 

Matt

 

[doctorwayne]

Matt, I wonder if your prototype cars are ex-CNR cars.  They cut-down a number of 36' Fowler single-sheathed boxcars, and added side doors.  These were intended for ash and cinder service.
There's an article in issue 46 (Volume 13, Number 1) of CN Lines, the magazine of the CNR Special Interest Group featuring these cars. 

Evidently, not all cars received the doors, but the ones shown had four doors per side - two near the ends aligned, more-or-less, with the trucks and one each on either side of what would have been the door when the car was a boxcar.  The doors were hinged at the top, and the cars were lined with sheet metal or had the wood sides replaced with metal.  The "Z" bracing of the original cars was re-used, albeit re-arranged to suit the placement of the doors.  The cars had peaked ends, apparently re-used from the original boxcars and all seem to have been equipped with stem-winder type brake wheels.  Some cars are shown with "K"-type brakes, while others have been upgraded (probably when they were still boxcars) with AB brake gear. 

These cars had long service lives (like much revenue equipment converted to company service) with one photo showing a cinder car (originally a boxcar) built in 1913, and retired in 1986.

Wayne

[Sailormatlac]

Dehusman, I checked it again this morning and I feel the easiest way to build a side door gondola would be to use the Tichy Low Side Gondola as a starting point.

If you check there, there's a guy doing a fine scratchbuilt of a GD gon, with lower doors.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22913&whichpage=1

The only things to change on the Tichy car would be to cut openings on the styrene side and install new doors. The tricky part is the mecanism, I must admit. There's probably a way to make it easier (my custom-built drop-bottom gondola drove me crazy!)... I wonder if one could use and adapt Red Caboose of Intermountain parts for this purpose. It would speed us the assembly.

If still available, ProtoWest Models made a nice Hart Ballast hopper.

http://www.protowestmodels.com/ProtoWest_HO_Kits.htm

Good luck with your project.

Matt

[Sailormatlac]

dehusman

 

Sailormatlac:

 

AH!! Now I see why they didn't bear any ressemblance at all.

Does a HO model of AAR "GD" gondola exist at all? I've seen stuff in HOn3 that was similar.

 

 

No, but if you find one, I need about 20 for my 1900 era layout.  GD hopper bottom gons were built from the 1880's thru the 1890's and were gone by the end of WW1.

Thanks! That would be a nice type of car to see in HO. Our safest bet would be to modify an old time flat car/wood gondola side. I will go to my local historical society this Friday to see if I can find again their railway pictures funds. From my teenager's day, I remember they had official railway side-view picture of freshly outshopped cars.

If I find a good prototype to bash easily, I'll let you know. At some point, I think Tichy wood gondola could be a good starting point. The trick would be to create a master and cast gondola sides out of resin.

Matt

 

QRL&P run theirs until 1957... It's what I like about this railway, you can model the late 50's and still run cars from the late nineteen century.

And I just found out from photo evidence that their 30' and 34' coal hoppers had 10 panels instead of 8... Grrr... Against the common sense again... BTW, they weren't 70-ton hoppers, much more 55-ton with different panel arrangement.

*EDIT* Walthers and Train Miniature once produces a PS-3 Rib Side Twin Hopper that could easily do the job since the lenght is correct.

Matt losing his sanity...

[dehusman]

Sailormatlac

AH!! Now I see why they didn't bear any ressemblance at all.

Does a HO model of AAR "GD" gondola exist at all? I've seen stuff in HOn3 that was similar.

No, but if you find one, I need about 20 for my 1900 era layout.  GD hopper bottom gons were built from the 1880's thru the 1890's and were gone by the end of WW1.

[Sailormatlac]

7j43k

 

Sailormatlac:

 

 

...found many from PRR. PRR GD gondola didn't show side doors...

 

 

 

 

 

Don't confuse the Pennsylvania GD class gons with AAR code GD gons--they're not the same.

 

Ed

 

AH!! Now I see why they didn't bear any ressemblance at all.

Does a HO model of AAR "GD" gondola exist at all? I've seen stuff in HOn3 that was similar.

Matt

[7j43k]

Sailormatlac

 

...found many from PRR. PRR GD gondola didn't show side doors...

 

 

 

Don't confuse the Pennsylvania GD class gons with AAR code GD gons--they're not the same.

 

Ed

[dehusman]

GD gons were typically used for ore or rock and unloaded to the sides as opposed to drop bottom gons or regular hoppers/ore cars that unload between the rails.

[Sailormatlac]

Thanks Chris, it's even better with Canadian prototype. Looks like I've found myself another kitbash project........ ;-)

 

Matt

[cv_acr]

A couple of other examples:

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=nar14005&o=nar

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cp404789&o=cprail

[Sailormatlac]

Hi,

 

I'm actually browsing through a QRL&PCo freight roster. The most important class of car is made of 36' GD-type gondola with 2'-6" high sides. According to AAR, GD is a solid bottom gondola with side doors. Over 40% of their roster was this type.

I have no picture of these cars, but found many from PRR. PRR GD gondola didn't show side doors, or I'm just too dumb to see them.

 

How did it work, how did they make them, any picture of this interesting system? The QRL&P cars were used to haul gravel and limestone.

 

Thank you,

 

Matt