Ya'll will never guess what I found in North Judson, Indiana.
Course, with the grilles on the side, I wouldn't be surprised if the darned thing was powered...
-Morgan
Hyjacking: modern era question, if a road is usung a habitable caboose for shoving but is going in the other direction part of the time, and it is equipped with markers, does it still have to carry a FRED by FRA (presumably to report pressures and such) or is it okay without?
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I seen habitable cabooses with Fred's and some with nothing more then red flags.
As far as mounting headlights on a caboose the hardest part would be to get the railroad to agree to mount the light but,they will be fast to say "that's impossible..Cabooses is a pool car."
In other words No way are we going to spend money mounting lights on a caboose.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
wjstix Say Brakie, one thing I wondered about relating to "shoving platforms"...the other day I was watching a DVD ( "I Love Big Trains") with my grandson and they showed a train with a caboose / shoving platform being used on the South Shore line near Chicago. In part where the film crew were riding along with the caboose in the lead, the narrator mentioned that the railroad crewman on the rear platform sometimes had to apply the brakes going thru a curve, to help prevent a derailment...but it didn't really explain why that would be necessary?? First time I'd heard of that.
Say Brakie, one thing I wondered about relating to "shoving platforms"...the other day I was watching a DVD ( "I Love Big Trains") with my grandson and they showed a train with a caboose / shoving platform being used on the South Shore line near Chicago. In part where the film crew were riding along with the caboose in the lead, the narrator mentioned that the railroad crewman on the rear platform sometimes had to apply the brakes going thru a curve, to help prevent a derailment...but it didn't really explain why that would be necessary??
First time I'd heard of that.
One of the reasons a shove is protected is the brakes can be applied if necessary by dumping the air causing the train to go into emergency.
I never heard of applying brakes to prevent a derailment on a curve simply because a reverse move is made under restricted speed-unless they change the rules on reverse move speeds.
Besides reverse moving up a urban industrial branch or a branch to another industry like a mine and quarry is hazardous because of the debris that can be on the track to include passed out winos and the occasional shopping cart..
Having been on a caboose in aa shoving position, your road rews will appreciate you if you decide to mount an old loco headlight, or even the headlights off the F150 #909 totaled last week. It makes it easier o see at night, and there's a certain edgyness to being on theback of a caboose hoping some moron isn't blind toy your lantern and fusee. Not to mention, it's faster (and safer, though the old hands will tell you this is coward's railroading) than the hop-on hop-off flagging at night. And again, headlights are always going to be bright. The Phosflouresnewnt baby-puke Green vests are subject to light hitting them, and not the hood of the oncoming car.
Something to think about too. While shoving, the brakeman/conductor will be calling distances to things to the engineer, including corssings and switch points. As far as I know then, while the Con is on the back running that Pea-shooter peep whistle, the engineer will still know his ditances to the crossing, and can blow the engine per usual.
Now, there arein fact a few business cars equipped with horns on them,including NKP1 and an ex-Zephyr. I've seen a video of the Zephyr backing with the horn used, and guys at the museum want to restore NKP1's horn to use, so if you wanted to model one, you could. All the one's I've seen are mounted to one side of the coupler (actally up a bit higher though) and pointed at the ground.
DSO17 BRAKIE: I do recall spitting a few bugs out of my mouth during the summer.. If conditions were bad on the platform, (bugs, rain, cold, snow, rock throwers, etc.) it was common to hang the lantern on the back-up valve and retreat inside the cabin and just come out for the crossings. Most cabooses had a window in the door. I guess this was against the rules, but the people who wrote the rules weren't on the cab that night.
BRAKIE: I do recall spitting a few bugs out of my mouth during the summer..
I do recall spitting a few bugs out of my mouth during the summer..
If conditions were bad on the platform, (bugs, rain, cold, snow, rock throwers, etc.) it was common to hang the lantern on the back-up valve and retreat inside the cabin and just come out for the crossings. Most cabooses had a window in the door. I guess this was against the rules, but the people who wrote the rules weren't on the cab that night.
We would do that during inclement weather and high risk areas but,for safety reasons we preferred to ride on the platform watching for debris on the track like old car tires,old refrigerators,couches,stolen bicycles etc and the occasional passed out wino.
BRAKIE I do recall spitting a few bugs out of my mouth during the summer..
Mike Kieran I was thinking along the lines of headlights, but fiber optic lanterns would work. Were the lanterns for lighting power or marker lights?
I was thinking along the lines of headlights, but fiber optic lanterns would work. Were the lanterns for lighting power or marker lights?
The lanterns were just the usual trainmen's hand lanterns, oil or later electric. They served more to make the move more visible than to show the track ahead like a headlight would.
On street trackage:
The marker lights were the regular caboose markers, set to show red in the direction of the shove. From my observation, the most effective ones were the old PRR portable flashing markers. The lit fusees were usually placed on the end of the center sill right above the coupler. Hopefully the smoke would blow to one side, so the crew could stand to the "upwind" side.
DSO17 mentioned the "peep whistle" on the caboose, and this was also used by the Illinois Central. This small device was mounted adjacent to the railings on the platform, and was activated by the conductor or trainman standing on the platform. The brake-line air pressure was the source of the air for the whistle. This item is quite small, and I'm not sure it would be noticable in HO scale (can't recall seeing a casting for modeling one, but maybe there is....). The "need" for such items is local or state law, which usually required the train to produce "an audible signal" prior to crossing the road. The little whistle met the letter of the law and was thus the most economical for the railroad.
Bill
DSO17 Mike Kieran: I was planning on just having the train stop at crossings so that they could be flagged. I'm modelling 1979, so I'm not sure if there are any laws regarding lights and horns. Back in 1979 IIRC, Conrail, Amtrak and B&O all had rules that required the display of a white light on the lead car when shoving at night, except in yards. The trainman's hand lantern was considered sufficient to comply with that rule. The little peep whistle on the backup valve was considered to be sufficient audible warning at highway crossings. When shoving on street trackage. in addition to the caboose markers and trainman's lamps, a lighted fusee was usually displayed on the caboose.
Mike Kieran: I was planning on just having the train stop at crossings so that they could be flagged. I'm modelling 1979, so I'm not sure if there are any laws regarding lights and horns.
I was planning on just having the train stop at crossings so that they could be flagged. I'm modelling 1979, so I'm not sure if there are any laws regarding lights and horns.
Back in 1979 IIRC, Conrail, Amtrak and B&O all had rules that required the display of a white light on the lead car when shoving at night, except in yards. The trainman's hand lantern was considered sufficient to comply with that rule. The little peep whistle on the backup valve was considered to be sufficient audible warning at highway crossings.
When shoving on street trackage. in addition to the caboose markers and trainman's lamps, a lighted fusee was usually displayed on the caboose.
On the Chessie(C&O) while shoving at night we had to flag all crossings(except those with flashers and gates)-we would swing off the caboose run ahead and flag the crossing with a fusee and swing on the caboose as it rolled by.
I don't recall ever lighting a fusee and laying it on the caboose due to the heat and the need for us to stand on the platform protecting the shove.
jeffhergert No. The cabooses that I've seen (UP in Iowa) used for shoving platforms don't have a horn or lights. Other railroads, and even the UP elsewhere may have outfitted horns or lights, but I haven't seen them. I have seen some cabooses that have been converted for use by MOW use that have had a horn (truck type, not a locomotive type horn) added to them. The MOW cabooses (the ones I've seen are mostly ex-MP baywindow types) are used for gang transport and some office space and small storage. On train lists they are called "gang cars." (Many of the ex-MP cars have also been outfitted with gas grills by the individual work gangs so they can have a hot lunch.) Jeff
No. The cabooses that I've seen (UP in Iowa) used for shoving platforms don't have a horn or lights. Other railroads, and even the UP elsewhere may have outfitted horns or lights, but I haven't seen them.
I have seen some cabooses that have been converted for use by MOW use that have had a horn (truck type, not a locomotive type horn) added to them. The MOW cabooses (the ones I've seen are mostly ex-MP baywindow types) are used for gang transport and some office space and small storage. On train lists they are called "gang cars." (Many of the ex-MP cars have also been outfitted with gas grills by the individual work gangs so they can have a hot lunch.)
Jeff
UP did add headlights to at least one UP caboose, UP 25833. A few years ago they refurbished it to be use on a local train. I talked to a mechanical department guy when they were doing that and found out it is a true caboose. He said they were planning to use it for rides on the next company picnic.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2045079
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2264212
Fortunately, I was able to photograph it before the vandals got to it.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
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Mike Kieran
Port Able Railway
I just do what the majority of the voices in my head vote on.
Mike Kieran I have a quick question. What does IIRC stand for?
I have a quick question. What does IIRC stand for?
If I Remember Correctly (the older you get the more you use it)
Mike Kieran I was planning on just having the train stop at crossings so that they could be flagged. I'm modelling 1979, so I'm not sure if there are any laws regarding lights and horns.
Sorry, I forgot to mention that my layout is basically a loop with 3 trailing point sidings, no passing sidings ala the Lancaster Northern.
But during your time frame, most railroads still used cabooses in regular service. Caboose on as shoving platform is a later development.
Dan
It should just like a rotary plow does.
Ray
I'm planning on using a caboose for a shoving platform on the front of my train. Does it need headlights and a horn for grade crossings?