How to kitbash a U-25C or improve the Riverossi model

[V&A C-628]

sandusky

I think an easy project is to replace the steel wool excuses for motor brushes used by some Rivarossi locos with standard Athearn motor brushes which have been made to fit by rolling them on some sandpaper to reduce their diameter to fit. Sometimes that helps them run more smoothly. I have the NWSL wheels in the mail to eliminate the traction tires, which is a must if you want to avoid these things wobbling down the track (which is not totally unprototypical, I suppose). MS

I'd rather just put a good quality can motor in it and put some new trucks on it. I'm sure replacing the steel wool would help, but it would probably be better to just scrap the motor. Atlas RSD or FM trucks work for the U-25C, you just have to reuse the riverosssi U-25C side frames. There's alot of room for a good sized motor to be placed in it.

[sandusky]

I think an easy project is to replace the steel wool excuses for motor brushes used by some Rivarossi locos with standard Athearn motor brushes which have been made to fit by rolling them on some sandpaper to reduce their diameter to fit. Sometimes that helps them run more smoothly. I have the NWSL wheels in the mail to eliminate the traction tires, which is a must if you want to avoid these things wobbling down the track (which is not totally unprototypical, I suppose). MS

[V&A C-628]

Darth Santa Fe

The Rivarossi U25C gearing is only awful when it's dirty and not adjusted quite perfectly. My U25C still needs some work on the wheels, but the stock gearing is incredibly smooth running since I cleaned it up and got it all adjusted just right (which is pretty easy). The round motors were a little inconsistent with their quality, so some ran great while others weren't so good. It's very easy to switch it out for a better motor, which can be mounted in the rear with only a little modification.

The CB&Q U-25C has ok performance, but its not that great. The Pennsy one I have is a very bad running one. I don't plan to salvage the gearing, but I do plan to place a different motor in it to give both of them much better performance. I plan to use either Atlas' RSD-4/5 truck or their FM Trainmaster truck. Both have proper spacing but will use GE sideframes from the Riverossi models. The handrails on them seem ok, but I don't know how they'll do once I airbrush them. I somewhat have a plan to repower these Riverossi U-25Cs, but all the details are not worked out.

[Darth Santa Fe]

The Rivarossi U25C gearing is only awful when it's dirty and not adjusted quite perfectly. My U25C still needs some work on the wheels, but the stock gearing is incredibly smooth running since I cleaned it up and got it all adjusted just right (which is pretty easy). The round motors were a little inconsistent with their quality, so some ran great while others weren't so good. It's very easy to switch it out for a better motor, which can be mounted in the rear with only a little modification.

[V&A C-628]

The CB&Q one I have has the ladder on the left rear as a seperate piece. The Pennsy one however has the left rear ladder cast on. The motors on both of mine are the ones that are round and fill up the cab. These motors are very awful and the drive mechanisms along with the trucks and the gears are very old and awful. If I can't repower them with new trucks and what not, then they will become dummies with sound moduals that mimic the FDL 16. I also found that it might be possible to make a U-25C shell out of a U-25B. The U-25C was only 4 feet longer than the U-25B, but the handrails might need some modifications to match the U-25C.

[7j43k]

A U25C has different trucks, radically different handrails, battery boxes on the rear walkway, and a "narrow" radiator assembly. And that's just a start.

To me, anyway, the choices are a Rivarossi model (fixed up to the extent one can) or waiting for someone to make a fresh one. I'm leaning towards the latter, since I've already got 5 lifetimes of projects that I can do before the Rivarossi conversion becomes pressing. But I'll still keep mine.

Ed

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

 I'm not a big diesel guy but how far off would a U34CH be form a U25C? The cab and nose look virtually the same at least form pics I've looked at it's just the back end has the same look as a Dash -8 Am I even in the same ball park? My reason for asking is Atlas made a U34CH (contrary to what the guy from Atlas told me on the phone when I called them) That runs really nice I have one in the NJDOT Blue Bird Paint scheme just for the heck of it to pull a set of NJ Transit passenger cars, just because they used to be a common site around here b4 they started using all those ugly electric trains. YUK! and the best thing is that it's DCC ready

 

 

[7j43k]

FWIW: <

My powered one is a Pennsy. I got it when they first came out--hence an early one. The ladder on the left rear of the loco was a separate piece. My CB&Q and NP dummies have the ladder cast on (sad face inserted here)--must've been "later" ones. With the Pennsy one, the motor filled up the cab--it was sort of big and round. I've never seen the insides of any other ones, so I don't know how they changed.

Ed

[V&A C-628]

I don't know whether or not my U-25Cs are from the early run or from a later run. All I know is that one is painted for the CB&Q and the other for the Pennsy. I saw a repowering project for the U-25C on one of the Atlas forums. They reused the sideframes but used the atlas FM trucks and motor. The only thing is that he got rid of the old frame and milled one for it out of brass. I like his idea of using the atlas trucks and motor, but making a whole new frame for it is something I wouldn't want to do. I might try his idea, but I won't make a new frame for it out of brass.

[7j43k]

I have had some experience with re-powering an early U25C. It wasn't successful, though it was interesting. You don't say specifically what your complaint is with the drive. Assuming there aren't any defects (like the dreaded "burrs"), I would think temporarily replacing the original motor would reveal if there's a problem there. If that fixes things, then pursue the right motor and the right mounting. It's been a LONG time since I worked on this project, but I recall the rest of the drive as being potentially adequate. Also, I don't know I Rivarossi changed things after mine (note the word "early" above).

I fully agree that all wheel pickup is necessary, but I'd put that off until you are happy with the mechanicals. If you never are, then you won't have wasted your time doing the pickup improvement. On mine, the center axles are unpowered. This isn't a problem, but you HAVE to make sure there's enough vertical play on those, so that your loco doesn't have problems with high spots in the track. I think mine also had traction tires, which problem will be eased if you put in NWSL wheels.

On mine the handrails are stamped (steel, I think). The bottom section is supposed to be part of the loco, so just "replacing" the handrails is a problem. The ones that are there are pretty close to right--the stanchions are kinda big flat vertical strips--pretty much like the ones on the model. My plan has been to use a file to round off the handrail section of the stamping to make it more like the real ones. Also, on mine, the handrails were mostly blackened instead of painted; and it showed. Should "Wallthers" never make a replacement, I expect I'd still go that route.

I REALLY like the look of the Rivarossi truck sideframes and would go to great lengths to keep them, which will happen if you can whip the original drive into shape.

I later picked up a couple of dummy U25C's. That solved my re-powering problem.

Ed

[V&A C-628]

Thanks for the tip about the NWSL wheel sets. I e-mailed walthers and they said that they aren't planning on making a U-25C (at least not soon). The riverossi motor in these engines looks different than the one in the photo. I have a photo of the motor which I'll put up soon. I've found an old Athearn motor from the late '70s/early '80s that was once in an old Fairbanks Morse Trainmaster. The motor looks like it could fit if I just made some changes to certain parts and components. It might work, but I'm not sure. If I find that I can't repower them, they'll probably become dummies.

[Darth Santa Fe]

The wheels aren't listed on the website. You'll have to call or e-mail them about it, but they're friendly people who are pretty easy to deal with. The part numbers are #2693-6 for the 0.110" tread wheels, and #2694-6 for the 0.088" tread.

Does the motor look something like this? The original trucks and drive will work fine with a different motor. I've tried mounting a quality can motor in mine with excellent results, but ended up putting a Rivarossi motor back in because I wanted to.

As far as I know, there isn't a handrail kit available specifically for the U25C. You'll have to buy your own stanchions (or posts), which can be brass or plastic, and bend your own wire. The original handrails would be a good template for bending your own, which is really pretty easy.

If there's a rumor of a Walthers U25C, you could always e-mail them to confirm it if it's true.

[V&A C-628]

 

Can you please tell me where on the website these wheel sets are? The motor in my Riverossi U-25C's is a small motor that is about the size of a C battery. I'm not sure if it is the motor you mention here. Is there a plast ic alternative to the brass handrails? If the motor needs to be replaced, should I keep the original trucks or find ones that would work with the new motor? If I can't salvage these Riverossi U-25C's, I'll turn them into dummies. According to the rumor mill, walthers might be making a U-25C. If the rumor is true, then the riverossi engines might not be fully rebuilt.

[Darth Santa Fe]

NWSL makes rewheel kits for the U25C, which you can purchase directly from them. They offer them with either NMRA .110" or semi-scale 0.088" tread thickness. The wheels are mounted on the original axles, and my catalog shows the kits at only $8. That alone will improve operation quite a bit. Changing out Rivarossi diesel wheels is pretty easy.

Additional electrical pickup should also be added. I used pieces of brass wire, which I mounted to the top of each truck. A flexible wire is soldered to the brass wire and goes directly to the motor. The wire contacts the outer insulated wheels, and the upgrade completely eliminated stalling.

Rivarossi's motor is a very smooth runner when properly tuned. I've found that minor adjustments of the plastic cap on the round motor, if that's what you have, can align the bearings perfectly, resulting in smoother and quieter operation. If there's nothing that can be done for the motor, then it should be replaced. Otherwise, I would keep the original motor.

As for improving detail, replacing the handrails with brass wire and Smokey Valley stanchions should greatly improve how your models look.

Hope all of this helps!

[V&A C-628]

 

I'm gonna try and wait for a decent model as well. I'm just trying to figure out alternatives in case some one doesn't come out for awhile. I'm also just trying to salvage a pair of poor running riverossi units I bought a while ago. I'm only 14 so I can't really do much with them. If some one does come out with a good model, these riverossi engines will just become dummies with improved handrails and other thing to make them DCC worthy.

[RedGrey62]

You may still want to join and ask that group as I'm sure they've tried just about everything.  If I recall correctly, the closest Alco tri axle trucks are off of a Bachman E33. 

I'll hold out to see if someone is going to do a new production in plastic as I have enough loco projects already!

Good luck

Ricky

[V&A C-628]

Thanks for the tip about the yahoo group. I looked at it and it looks like the group is one focused on trying to take the Riverossi model and completely revamp it into a prized model. Although it looks interesting, it looks very expensive. Would modifying a dash 7 six axle shell, C-boat frame and Alco trimount trucks work as well? 

[RedGrey62]

V&A1533

 

Do you know the name of the yahoo group? 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/u25cproject/

Ricky

[V&A C-628]

 

Do you know the name of the yahoo group? 

[RedGrey62]

jrbernier

  You have a several of options:

• Kaslo Shops has a re-power/upgrade handrail set for the old AHM U25C - It looks sort of 'spendy' and may take some skill to build.
• The 'Rumor Mill' indicates that Walthers is looking at a Proto 2000 U25C release in the future.
• A kit-bash of the Athearn U28C is another possible option.

Jim

Jim,

I hope your rumor mill is correct, a couple painted for CB&Q would be great and much cheaper than the brass model due out shortly from Division Point!

To the OP, I believe there is a Yahoo Group dedicated to modifying the Rivarossi U25C.

Ricky

[jrbernier]

  You have a several of options:

• Kaslo Shops has a re-power/upgrade handrail set for the old AHM U25C - It looks sort of 'spendy' and may take some skill to build.
• The 'Rumor Mill' indicates that Walthers is looking at a Proto 2000 U25C release in the future.
• A kit-bash of the Athearn U28C is another possible option.

Jim

[V&A C-628]

I modeling a freelanced railway set in the appalachian mountains in the summer of 1969. I've bought two Riverossi U-25Cs and I need to improve their performance. Does anyone have any ideas on how to kit bash a U-25C or improve the Riverossi model?