Over the weekend, Ifound a picture in Railroad Magazine in a 1975 issue, of a Diesel Shay, rebuilt from a Steam Shay. The picture's credits climed $3 gpt them 2-3weeks of service. even inflation figured, $3 to feed a locomotive sounds pretty good.
Here's some questions though, what's the difference between the Diesel SHay, and any other diesel with a tranny and a driveshaft? Or, is this one just a shay gearing turned by a diesel. Was this the only one? or were others tried as well?
-Morgan
Most diesels that have a mechanical transmission/clutch are usually very small(under 25 tons) due to the large mechanical forces placed on the clutch plates. I have heard about the geared steamer 're-powering' before, but I am not sure how sucessful this engine was. Ther ewas also diesel-torque convertor or hydraulic transmission locomotives(very popular in Europe). IIRC, one of the other geared engine builder(Hiesler??) did outshop a diesel varient of their steam design.
Most diesels are actually diesel electic locomotives with the diesel turning a generator that produces electricity to power electric traction motors.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
jrbernier IIRC, one of the other geared engine builder(Hiesler??) did outshop a diesel varient of their steam design. Jim
IIRC, one of the other geared engine builder(Hiesler??) did outshop a diesel varient of their steam design.
According to The Heisler Locomotive, they built one diesel-electric in 1931. It looks like a diesel, with center cab, and 2 low hoods. Power was 2 Buda's (180 HP each), electrical by Westinghouse, with 2 traction motors driving the Heisler center shaft thru gears. Successful enough that it ran till 1970, scrapped in 1972, but it was the only factory built. The book does mention that several steam Heislers were converted by their owners using local talent and ideas and supplies.
A Heisler (or Climax) with the center shaft, would line up nicely with the driveshaft of a gas or diesel engine. The side shaft of the Shay would probably mean right angle shafts, gearing and or drive chains to get the power to the shaft. Not to say that some backwoods mechanic didn't try.
Phil
Timber Head Eastern Railroad "THE Railroad Through the Sierras"
I recall seeing a photo of a homebuilt diesel shay, which was basically a log truck prime mover geared to the original side shaft. The 'carbody' had been built up from corrugated tin roofing and looked like a poor attempt at a backwoods chicken house. It's the all-time grand champion ugly locomotive!
In my modeling era, the JNR was heavily into diesel-hydraulic propulsion, both for locomotives (up to 2200HP) and under the floors of the myriad DMU cars that protected passenger schedules on un-electrified lines.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Flashwave Over the weekend, Ifound a picture in Railroad Magazine in a 1975 issue, of a Diesel Shay, rebuilt from a Steam Shay. The picture's credits climed $3 gpt them 2-3weeks of service. even inflation figured, $3 to feed a locomotive sounds pretty good. Here's some questions though, what's the difference between the Diesel SHay, and any other diesel with a tranny and a driveshaft? Or, is this one just a shay gearing turned by a diesel. Was this the only one? or were others tried as well?
I encountered one of these beasties (or the remains of one) in McClure, Virginia in June of 1974. This was a 3-foot gauge Shay of the W.M. Ritter Company, operated there as the McClure Lumber Co. This is is deep Southwest Virginia ("Clinchfield Country"). The Shay was c/n 949, a 33-ton 2-truck narrow gauge shay built 11/1904 for the Linville River Rwy. #1. It went to W.M. Ritter in 1913 and landed at their McClure operation in 1928.
The mechanics of the backwoods logging companies developed the ability to fix virtually anything and also to craft almost any metal piece that was needed. Here, they bolted the internal combustion engine to the cab floor, with the transmission end toward the front of the locomotive and extending into where the firebox was. They removed the steam cylinders from the side of the shay and installed a chain drive, covered by a housing, and the chain drive then rotated the original Shay driveshaft along the side of the locomotive. The engine had been removed by the time I found this one, but Thomas Fetters notes in Logging Railroads of the Blue Ridge and Smoky Mountains that it was a "gas-mechanical". My original notes from inspecting the thing in 1974 state that it had use a Catapillar 4-speed transmission. Operating conditions for the engineer sitting right next to the motor would likely not have been the quietest. Without the weight of the cylinders or water in the boiler and the tender, tractive effort would have been greatly reduced, but likely would have been enough to shuffle a couple cars around the mill. I do not know how long it operated with internal combustion.
I didn't have a great camera back then, and it was hard to get a good camera angle due to an embankment, trees, and kudzu. I recall that it was located next to a small diner called "The Old Shay Inn". The photo does show the rounded housing where the cylinders used to be - the housing that covered the chain-drive connection to the original main driveshaft. (Photobucket changed their usual drop-down menus, so I hope I picked the proper link....)
Bill
Hmm. Well, this one was a centercab design, with a grill that didn't look like the measured, just strung piping, but the shay-drive was exterior mounted. Couldn't see the piston housing though dues to a curve.
I thought it was a bizarre creature, and I;ve been looking for a street-running switcher to use. This one seemed like a fun one to try. And Darth has been having too much fun wht his Keystone and Roundhouse, and I'm finding te Precison Scale catalog... May just try it.
If you want a street-running Shay, the New York Central had several, built in 1923 to handle traffic on 10th Avenue, New York City. To comply with city ordnance, they had carbodies that made them look like box-cab motors with a sloped-side tank and bunker stuck on one end.
While in street service, the machinery was pretty thoroughly covered up. Later, after being moved to Western New York State, the covering over the cylinders was removed - but they still retained their box carbodies.
The Shay's inherent low speed was not a problem. That same city ordnance required the street-running train to be, "Proceeded by a man on horseback carrying a red flag."
I found some more up-to-date photos of c/n 949, which has been preserved:
http://www.shaylocomotives.com/data/dataframe.htm
I think we are referring to Lee Tidewater Cypress Lumber Company #3, at Copeland Florida. It is s/n 1590 in the above data base. It was used until right around 1960 when it was sold to an outfit in the Central American rainforest, where it was scrapped.
Unit had 2 diesel engines under the hoods. There was what appeared to be a heavy truck differential, mounted where the cylinders used to be located,that drove the jackshafts, which drove the axles. Don't know how the engines were connected to the differential. I have a different photo of the loco, and have seen yet others. The Lee Tidewater Cypress company also had what looked to me to be a diesel powered class A Climax, and a center-cab homebuilt caboose. There might be more pix at Taplines.com
tomikawaTT If you want a street-running Shay, the New York Central had several, built in 1923 to handle traffic on 10th Avenue, New York City. To comply with city ordnance, they had carbodies that made them look like box-cab motors with a sloped-side tank and bunker stuck on one end. While in street service, the machinery was pretty thoroughly covered up. Later, after being moved to Western New York State, the covering over the cylinders was removed - but they still retained their box carbodies. The Shay's inherent low speed was not a problem. That same city ordnance required the street-running train to be, "Proceeded by a man on horseback carrying a red flag." Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Yep, that one I di dknow about, and I have heard of others too. I do remember residng the shroud was to not spook the horses, though I'm not sure why a wgon with a meatgrinder on the sidde is any less scary than a steam engine with a meatgrinder on the side, as I tought the rods were still visible (to allow for turning radii) I thought maybe oto, a diesel would be a fun and unique way to go about a shay.
BillD53A I think we are referring to Lee Tidewater Cypress Lumber Company #3, at Copeland Florida. It is s/n 1590 in the above data base. It was used until right around 1960 when it was sold to an outfit in the Central American rainforest, where it was scrapped. Unit had 2 diesel engines under the hoods. There was what appeared to be a heavy truck differential, mounted where the cylinders used to be located,that drove the jackshafts, which drove the axles. Don't know how the engines were connected to the differential. I have a different photo of the loco, and have seen yet others. The Lee Tidewater Cypress company also had what looked to me to be a diesel powered class A Climax, and a center-cab homebuilt caboose. There might be more pix at Taplines.com
EUREAKA! Actualy, that is the engine, and far, far more informative than the caption I had. Differnet pic too. Bummer to hear it scrapped.
Thanks guys, I have been enjoying this thread.
This is the only one that I am aware of.