wjstix There was one (or two?) Milwaukee FM switcher that was painted in the UP colors, it was used as a switcher at one of the large passenger stations (can't think which one right now of course....)
There was one (or two?) Milwaukee FM switcher that was painted in the UP colors, it was used as a switcher at one of the large passenger stations (can't think which one right now of course....)
There was a total of two. 718 and 733. Only one was painted in passenger colors at a time. They were used for switching at the Milwaukee depot.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
There were also some early EMD E-units used on the UP/CNW trains like the City of San Francisco that had both heralds on them...although I think technically they weren't jointly owned - CNW owned some and UP the others.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2145/2039065579_4ecc117ab8_z.jpg?zz=1
Geared Steam- this conjecture of the MILW wanting to merge with the UP is complete bunk. The truth is the Milwaukee was looking for a merger partner, but studies at the time were being done to look into a merger with the CNW- not UP. The paint scheme applied to the Milwaukee Road passenger locomotives was simply to standardize the schemes between UP and MILW equipment on the cities trains. UP and CNW did the same thing- CNW had units and passenger cars painted in UP colors which were assigned to the Cities streamliner pool. The Milwaukee just took it a step further and painted all their passenger equipment UP colors. There is plenty of good official testimony that I have read that clearly states that- only the passenger locomotives and cars were painted this way. Freight units retained the orange-maroon-black scheme (and later simplified orange-black).
As for the other post that spoke of a power swap when the CNW operated the cities trains- at first the trains all had their own dedicated trainsets with specially assigned power. When that arrangement was dissolved UP power did operate through to Chicago over CNW rails- and likewise CNW power and cars operated through to Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Portland. There have been plenty of published pictures that prove this-including many by famed photographed Otto Perry. The run-through arrangement carried over to the MILW- and MILW E-units/cars operated through to the coast on the Cities trains, and UP power ran through to Chicago likewise.
Jim I don't know about JPD there but you sound pretty knowledgable on this topic so I'm going with what you said.
My question though is can you lead me to some good photos of these schemes? the "greyback" "ciger band" and "book-ends"?
For example, I have a couple sets of the old Athearn F7s in the grey with orange stripe but it is different than the Stewart/Bowser scheme esspecially the hood treatment and roof color.
Joe B
Can't remember where I read this, (my post was over a year ago) but like I said, it's all conjecture, MILW was looking to be absorbed half of it's existence so It was not beyond reason.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Geared Steam wjstix: In 1955 Union Pacific began using the Milwaukee Road's trackage to reach Chicago rather than the Chicago & NorthWestern tracks they'd used for the previous decades. As part of the deal, the Milwaukee had to agree to re-paint any of it's cars that would be used in the joint UP-MlLW trains to match the UP yellow and gray. By the late fifties, the Milwaukee decided the UP colors were easy to maintain and wore well - or maybe they just liked it? - and so started painting all their passenger equipment UP yellow. I heard another story, but it's all conjecture at this point. MILW Road at this time had wishes to be absorbed by the UP, so in a bit of wishful thinking, they painted the MILW passenger equipment UP yellow, not because of some agreement to allow UP trackage rights into Chicago. From the time of the second bankruptcy to the end, the MILW executives were constantly looking for someone to buy the road, which also explains the lack of maintenance in the later years, to make the books look better. One wonders what would have happened if they actually had some leadership.
wjstix: In 1955 Union Pacific began using the Milwaukee Road's trackage to reach Chicago rather than the Chicago & NorthWestern tracks they'd used for the previous decades. As part of the deal, the Milwaukee had to agree to re-paint any of it's cars that would be used in the joint UP-MlLW trains to match the UP yellow and gray. By the late fifties, the Milwaukee decided the UP colors were easy to maintain and wore well - or maybe they just liked it? - and so started painting all their passenger equipment UP yellow.
I heard another story, but it's all conjecture at this point.
MILW Road at this time had wishes to be absorbed by the UP, so in a bit of wishful thinking, they painted the MILW passenger equipment UP yellow, not because of some agreement to allow UP trackage rights into Chicago. From the time of the second bankruptcy to the end, the MILW executives were constantly looking for someone to buy the road, which also explains the lack of maintenance in the later years, to make the books look better. One wonders what would have happened if they actually had some leadership.
Never heard of that before, afraid it's pretty unlikely. The UP was not happy with CNW's handling of UP trains to Chicago (BTW it wasn't trackage rights, UP power was cut off and CNW engines hauled the streamliners from Omaha to Chicago) so when their contract expired with CNW in 1955 they signed a new contract with the Milwaukee. Part of the contract was that Milwaukee had to paint passenger engines to match the UP consists, and to provide a certain number of cars for use in the streamliners. It was only after the contract that Milwaukee started using the yellow and gray.
They would have lasted long enough to see some SD70's and DASH 9's before likely secoming like the rest in the 90's merger era. In this case I think BN/BNSF and CN would have their go at, hopefully going to BN. The Canadian railroads own too many American railroads as it is.
Also on further thought, Wisconsin Central Ltd and Wisconsin & Southern ran/run respectively on old MILW track so those might not be around. Then again had MILW been operated decently they could have grown profitable enough to by the Green Bay & Western, or even merge with CNW.
Hey this is kind of fun to speculate.
Hiawatha Fan,
Y^ou better do your research. The orginal FT/F3 and the first order of F7 freight units were delivered in the 'grey' paint scheme, with the orange 'lightning stripe'.. This was replaced around 1950 with the orange/maroon/black scheme on the following F7 deliveries and on the F9's. Eventually these were replaced by the simplified orange/black scheme in the 60's.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
the orange, gray, and black was used on the passenger loco's and the orange and black was on the freight loco's.
orange gray and maroon was the color used on the passenger service. orange and black was used on the freight loco's.
wjstixIn 1955 Union Pacific began using the Milwaukee Road's trackage to reach Chicago rather than the Chicago & NorthWestern tracks they'd used for the previous decades. As part of the deal, the Milwaukee had to agree to re-paint any of it's cars that would be used in the joint UP-MlLW trains to match the UP yellow and gray. By the late fifties, the Milwaukee decided the UP colors were easy to maintain and wore well - or maybe they just liked it? - and so started painting all their passenger equipment UP yellow.
Some F-units also got the billboard "Milwaukee Road" on the side.
One had billboard on one side, and the older style on the other. Was fully painted in billboard, then got sideswiped a few months later. Shop forces found a stencil labeled "F-unit", and painted accordingly. In the older style.
The E6 & E7 units went through multiple paint schemes:
The E9's were delivered in the yellow/grey 'cities' scheme
The FT, F3, & F7 units:
The F9's:
The F9's that were converted to commuter service(and the passenger FP7's also go the yellow/grey 'cities' paint scheme.
Jim Bernier
Around 1952, the Milwaukee took delivery of SD7's in the new simplified black/orange paint scheme. The 'seperation' between the black and orange was higher than later deliveries. Most later deliveries/repaints had the seperation about even with the bottom of the cab window. IIRC, those SD7's were delivered with the old CMSP&P logo on the cab(and 2200 series engine numbers).
Basically, the RS1/RSC2 road switchers were delivered in the old paint scheme. The SD7/9, GP9, RS3, and RSD5's were delivered in the newer black/orange. For EMD switchers, all through the lone SW7 were delivered in the old paint scheme - after that new deliveries were in the orange/black. About the same time the cabooses lost the maroon lettering, and got a new style logo on the bay window,
Renumbering of the fleet from 4 digit to 3 digit numbers happened as soon as steam was retired. Between 1957 & 1959, most 4 digit diesels got renumbered into 3 digit numbers. By the mid 60's, new locomotive orders were being delivered in 4 digit numbers. Of course 1,2,& 3 digit renumbering in the 70's became the fad again(someone must of had a relative in the 'number board' business)....
I hope this helps,
A little background first...In 1955 Union Pacific began using the Milwaukee Road's trackage to reach Chicago rather than the Chicago & NorthWestern tracks they'd used for the previous decades. As part of the deal, the Milwaukee had to agree to re-paint any of it's cars that would be used in the joint UP-MlLW trains to match the UP yellow and gray. By the late fifties, the Milwaukee decided the UP colors were easy to maintain and wore well - or maybe they just liked it? - and so started painting all their passenger equipment UP yellow.
Since they no longer used the orange and maroon colors for passenger cars, they didn't need those colors on engines, and so I believe decided (as many railroads did in the 1950's-early 60's) to simplify their non-passenger paint scheme to just black and orange.
So it would be somewhere from about 1955-60...I'm sure someone will have a more specific answer. Of course it's important to remember that's when they started doing it. The equipment didn't all get repainted overnight!
I would like to know when the Milwaukee Road changed the paint scheme on its diesels from orange, gray, and maroon to orange and black. Anyone know the answer or where I could learn the answer?
Also, I seem to recall reading somewhere that where the line dividing the orange and black paint was made also determines when the paint was done, something to do with that line and the cab windows, can someone clarify this for me.
Any information would be appreciated. Thanks.