Southern Pacific Streamlined Passenger cars

[Anonymous]

Anybody know where i can find the southern pacific streamlined passenger cars?????? I looked all over and can't find them

[Anonymous]

Need more info......are you looking for models, photos, technical data?????

[Anonymous]

i'm lookin for models

[Anonymous]

If your looking for plastic, the correct model of an SP passenger car in plastic is Walthers Budd 10-6 sleeper stock number 932-6353 and Walthers soon to be released SP commuter cars stock number 932-5971 in two tone gray and stock number 932-5972. The commuter cars are due in June 04. For other cars, your only options are brass.
Ch

[M636C]

usnavysealranger,

The Athearn streamlined coach is very similar to the Pullman Standard cars built in 1937 for the "Daylight" and other trains, to P-S orders 6500 and 6515. It has "Budd" style ribbed roof, which is wrong, (P-S cars had flat sheet roofs) and the trucks are a later pattern. But the car looks very like the SP prototype, and is available in "Daylight" colours. The SP car was 79 ft long and the Athearn model is only 72 ft, but both of these are shorter than the common 85 ft length. The diner does not match an SP prototype since the "Daylight' used articulated three unit diner-lounge cars. The observation is as close as the coach with the same problems (roof and trucks). The Athearn baggage cars are not really close to the SP prototype. The same cars (except the observation)could be painted in overall olive green for use on standard trains, or (including the observation) in silver with a red letterboard. The last scheme lasted right to the Amtrak era, but most cars lost the "fluted" sides, replaced by flat stainless steel sheets.

I hope this helps

Are you really a seal? We already have a USN pilot on the forums!

Peter

[Anonymous]

The Athearn cars are actually modeled after the Santa Fe's pre war Budd cars
Ch

[Anonymous]

Hi retired Navy Musician Here!!! OK, Athearn's passenger cars are fine, but shop around a bit for better realistic models.

[Anonymous]

In addition to the double-deck commuter cars previously mentioned, there are a few accurate SP-prototype streamlined cars available in plastic in HO. Walthers or
Rivarossi have recently produced all of them, and have painted and lettered them in the "Simulated Stainless Steel" scheme (i.e., the last silver and red paint scheme).

The Walthers cars are:

The "Pullman-Standard 52-seat coach". SP had 3 of these cars (#s 2216-2218), all acquired second-hand from C&NW in 1961.
The 4-4-2 Pullman sleeper.
The 6-6-4 Pullman sleeper.
The 10-5 Pullman sleeper.

Rivarossi's new streamlined coach is a very accurate model (down to the air conditioning equipment) of SP coaches 2211-2215 and 2219, also acquired second-hand from C&NW in 1961.

--John

[Anonymous]

My bad about the sleepers. Actually coaches 2216-2218 are former C&O cars not C&NW. Wasn't aware of coaches 2211-2215 and 2219.
Ch

[M636C]

psngrtrn

The Athearn cars did not have consistent prototypes. The dome car, despite the ribbed roof, was otherwise a shortened model of the post war Super Chief cars from Pullman Standard. The observation had the parabolic end typical of Pullman Standard cars, rather than the semi-circular end used on Budd observation cars. The mail car was a Budd prototype, and it is interesting to compare it with the current Walthers model. The Walthers car is clearly more accurate in detail, but the overall appearance and finish of the Athearn car is quite good, and in the case of that car, it is very close to scale length. Not bad for a model unchanged in forty or more years being compared with the best available model! The Athearn coach and observation cars, despite the incorrect roof and trucks (although the trucks can be changed easily) are, as far as I know, still the closest cars to make up a 1937 Daylight to run behind a GS-4, for example. I know that most of the Daylight cars were articulated - I have photos of survivors in Oakland CA in 1977. They had been rebuilt with flat stainless steel lower sides by then. The Athearn cars could be modifed into articulated pairs, but they would then be too long (probably a first for these cars, shortened for sharp "train set" curves).

fiverings,

I assume the ex C&NW cars you mention are smooth sided cars. Are the Pullmans you mention also smooth sided cars? Are these available in two tone grey for the "Lark" service?

There were scale length P-S fluted side stainless steel cars available from Con Cor in the past, with correct roof details, but I don't think they were as good as the current Walthers cars. I've only seen a fluted 4-4-2 in AT&SF lettering for their "Super Chief" set so far.

At one stage, Model Power released some 75' Budd cars lettered for Amtrak (and in incorrect all over blue for VIA). These were in fact scale models of Australian Budd sleeping and dining cars, made by Lima in Italy. They now sell South American Budd cars made by Frateschi in Brazil These are also about 75' long, but I don't know if the prototypes are that length.

Peter

[Anonymous]

SP 2216-2218 had Pullman-Standard fluted stainless steel panels below the windows; these panels were retained until the cars were retired in 1970-71. The cars were purchased from C&NW in 1961, and kept the green-yellow-stainless steel paint scheme on SP for some period of time. Coach Yard has color photos of these cars at the Taylor Ave. coach yard on its web site. C&NW acquired the cars from C&O in 1957. On C&NW, the usual assignment for the cars was Chicago-Rapid City, SD on the Dakota 400.

The Pullman cars I mentioned (4-4-2, 6-6-4 and 10-5) were all pre-WWII smooth-sided cars.

The 4-4-2s and 6-6-4s were painted in the two-tone gray scheme for the Lark, the San Fransisco Overland and the Golden State; in red and silver for the Golden State; in Armour yellow and gray for the Overland and the City of San Fransisco; and in Simulated Stainless Steel for general assignment (after 1958) and for Golden State and Sunset service after 1953.

The 10-5 cars were painted in two-tone gray for the Lark, and in Simulated Stainless Steel (red and silver) for general service.

The ACF coaches (SP #s 2211-15 and 2219) came from C&NW painted in the Armour yellow and gray scheme. SP retained this paint scheme for several years, while the cars were assigned to the City of San Fransisco. In later years, some of these cars were repainted in the Simulated Stainless Steel scheme.

[Anonymous]

SP 2216-2218 had Pullman-Standard fluted stainless steel panels below the windows; these panels were retained until the cars were retired in 1970-71. The cars were purchased from C&NW in 1961, and kept the green-yellow-stainless steel paint scheme on SP for some period of time. Coach Yard has color photos of these cars at the Taylor Ave. coach yard on its web site. C&NW acquired the cars from C&O in 1957. On C&NW, the usual assignment for the cars was Chicago-Rapid City, SD on the Dakota 400.

The Pullman cars I mentioned (4-4-2, 6-6-4 and 10-5) were all pre-WWII smooth-sided cars.

The 4-4-2s and 6-6-4s were painted in the two-tone gray scheme for the Lark, the San Fransisco Overland and the Golden State; in red and silver for the Golden State; in Armour yellow and gray for the Overland and the City of San Fransisco; and in Simulated Stainless Steel for general assignment (after 1958) and for Golden State and Sunset service after 1953.

The 10-5 cars were painted in two-tone gray for the Lark, and in Simulated Stainless Steel (red and silver) for general service.

The ACF coaches (SP #s 2211-15 and 2219) came from C&NW painted in the Armour yellow and gray scheme. SP retained this paint scheme for several years, while the cars were assigned to the City of San Fransisco. In later years, some of these cars were repainted in the Simulated Stainless Steel scheme.

[M636C]

fiverings,

Thanks, I'll try to look up those cars in my references.

I have a Rivarossi two tone grey 10-6 which could be used with such cars.

Were the ex C&O/C&NW cars from the Chessie train? There is a set of those still in use in Argentina, between Buenos Aires and Mar del Plata. I didn't manage to see it, but I was shown photos.

Peter

[Anonymous]

Peter--

The ex-C&O/C&NW coaches were from the large batch acquired by C&O for general service. The cars built for The Chessie were constructed by Budd.

--John

[M636C]

John,

I should have remembered the Chessie cars were Budd cars!

Did any Pullman -Standard cars for SP have stainless steel upper sides and roof?

I think that was what was in my mind at the time. I know that P-S built such cars for AT&SF !

Peter

[Anonymous]

Except for the Pullman sleepers and heavyweights and the Bi-Level commuter cars and several smooth side coaches built for the Golden State and Golden Rocket and the Shasta Daylight, SP's cars for the Morning, Noon, Afternoon Daylights, San juaquin Daylight had stainless steel sheathing over corten steel frame work. The Sunset cars were built by Budd and delivered in Stainless steel with a red letter board above the window with silver-gray lettering and black accent stripes above and below the red stripe. Budds cars were compeletly made of stainless steel. After WWII, the Chessie placed the largest order for passenger cars but soon started canceling orders for the cars.
Pullman 52 seat coach (model by Walthers)*
C&O-1610-1668
D&RGW-1240-1247
SAL-6242-6251 renumbered to 5254-5263
C&NW 3483-3485
SP-2216-2218
NdeM-2216
Amtrak 5254-5263 and 5238-5243
C&O coach 1646 was rebuilt into a theater car in 1971
Taken from the article with drawing from Mainline Modler July 1987 by George A Trager
Ch[:D]