Hi, Scot - good to see you here as well.
Yep, I know what you mean . . . but a few months ago that assumption got me into a bit of a tiff with one of the more western-oriented members here. As you know, those double-track northeastern lines were also often 130 lb. or heavier rail sections. Since then, we've become accustomed to seeing them downgraded to single track branch-line status with only a couple trains a day, etc., though keeping the heavy rail. Out there a single track with 115 lb. rail can be a main line - other than the principal TransCon routes. So we understandably had quite different perceptions as to what a main line would look like.
What I think is amusing is that nowadays the various northeastern commuter/ transit agencies often 'upgrade' the rail by replacing the 130 lb. with 115 lb. - OK, the former was usually jointed, and the latter is usually CWR - but you know what I mean. Those were heavy-duty lines.
- Paul North.
The Anthracite Railroad Historical Society covers the Reading and some neighboring railroads. BTW I like the idea of a historical society covering several railroads like that. A while back when the Missabe RR Hist Soc was having some troubles due to a lack of items for their newsletter and such, I advocated making an Iron Ore Railroad Hist. Soc. covering the DMIR, GN, NP, Soo, CNW, Milwaukee and others but no one seemed terribly interested.
Also note there is a slight cultural / geographical bias between the "big two" railroad magazine families. Carstens is located in New Jersey, and so RMC and Railfan and Railroad seem to have more articles on eastern railroads than Kalmbach's MR and Trains, which come out of Milwaukee WI and tend to be a little more Midwestern in content.
Paul_D_North_Jr - Most of the Reading's principal lines were at least double-track. Not many other railroads could say that - I thought that was the 'norm' until I started seeing lines in other parts of the country. Paul North.
- Most of the Reading's principal lines were at least double-track. Not many other railroads could say that - I thought that was the 'norm' until I started seeing lines in other parts of the country.
Paul North.
sorry, but that is yet another area where the Reading was not at all unique! ;)
back in the day (mid 19th to mid 20th century) ALL the major railroads had double track mainlines..
very very common..
All the Readings North East contemporaries, LV, Erie, DL&W, PRR, NYC, CNJ..all had double track mainlines..that was the norm..at least in the North East..and I presume lots of othert places too..
sure, today single track lines are more common, but not back when the Reading was operating..
Scot
Randy -
The ACCESS Pennsylvania Library database says that only 2 libraries in the entire state have it - Parkand, which includes North Whitehall Twp., and Allentown. See: http://205.247.101.11/search/t?SEARCH=lock+ridge+furnace
Here're the listing details:
Bib util # zaccp2 b13862363 Author Stoneback, Jean C. Title Lock Ridge Furnace : Catasauqua & Fogelsville Railroad / by Jean C. Stoneback and Eric A. Neubauer. Imprint The Authors, c1995. Subject Catasauqua & Fogelsville Railroad. Lock Ridge Furnace -- Pennsylvania -- Alburtis. Alt Author Newbauer, Eric A. Descript 18 p. : ill.
HOLDINGS FOR ACCESS PA Database CENTRAL DATABASE
You might want to ask the director of each library if they would consider selling their copy - or at least put you on a list for it if that should ever occur. I recently found out that the Southern Lehigh Library culls their collection that way from time to time. I could see Parkland wanting to hang onto their copy - although Lock Ridge and the southern portion of the C&F are outside of their territory [Parkland School District], being in the East Penn School District instead - the northern portions of the C&F are in the other 2 townships that make up the Parkland area - Upper Macungie and South Whitehall. But Allentown really doesn't have much of a connection with either Lock Ridge or the C&F.
Or you could go to either one and borrow it or get it through an Inter-Library Loan, or even just copy the pages that are of interest to you. If it's not available, I don't see where the authors would have much to complain about.
Thanks. I checked Ron's Books but not Rails 'n' Shafts - alas they also have none. All I've found so far is that North Whitehall Library has a copy, and no one has checked it out ever. I'll check out some of those other sources, and just keep looking at the train shows.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hi, Randy -
The full title is:
LOCK RIDGE FURNACE
Catasauqua and Fogelsville R.R.
Jean C. Stoneback - Eric A. Neubauer
Maybe try E-Bay ?
I got mine in Nov. 2003 at the Allentown Train Meet Associates 'First Frost' Train Show at the Allentown Fairgrounds 'Agricultural Hall' - but I didn't write down whom from. (The most recent show was 2 weeks ago - I didn't notice it then, but I wasn't looking for it, either.) A couple guesses would be the Hawk Mountain Chapter of the NRHS; Rails 'n' Shafts out of Laurys Station, PA; or maybe from the Anthracite Railroads Historical Society's table. The front cover has a sticker on it that says ''B-1283 / Lock Ridge Furnace - C&F / $10.50''.
Or here's an idea - maybe try to get it via Jean Stoneback instead. She's still alive and writes a weekly column for one of the local papers - the East Penn Press. Also, there's a local group - the Alburtis Lock Ridge Historical Society that used to sponsor Holiday House Tours at this time of year. Here's some contact info for them:
Alburtis Lock Ridge Historical Society - 229 Franklin St.Alburtis, PA 18011Nancy Malewicz, President
Jean C. Stoneback - 588 Franklin St.Alburtis, PA 18011
David Kutzor [engineering technician, too] - 315 Franklin St. Alburtis, PA 18011
''Folkwerks'' Art and Antique Shop - Peg McCormack - 121 S. Main St.Alburtis, PA 18011
Lehigh County's website for Lock Ridge Park:
http://www.lehighcounty.org/Departments/ParksAndRecreation/LockRidgePark/tabid/450/language/en-US/Default.aspx - phone 610-435-4664 - administered by Lehigh County Historical Society.
Also, anyone know where I could get that book? Eric doesn't list it on his web site.
dehusman Obscure furnaces: Lock Ridge Furnace in Alburtis, PA.
Obscure furnaces: Lock Ridge Furnace in Alburtis, PA.
Maybe if you model other than the East Penn/C&F Or don't come from around that area, or weren't married in the park that used to be the furnace.
grizlump9 B&O, PENNSYLVANIA, READING, SHORTLINE. and by the way, the cop in the go to jail square is officer Edgar Mallory. now, where are/were Mack Trucks built? grizlump
B&O, PENNSYLVANIA, READING, SHORTLINE. and by the way, the cop in the go to jail square is officer Edgar Mallory.
now, where are/were Mack Trucks built?
grizlump
They made a big deal about the bulldog in front of their old HQ being removed a few months ago in Allentown. There was a Mack Truck factory in Masbeth NY, just south of the LIE way back in the last century. Are there any factories in Queens still used as manufacturing enterprises?
Paul_D_North_JrSo how the heck does a guy from Omaha know about that one ?
I guess they sold at least two of those books. 8-)
I also may be in Omaha but grew up in the Norristown area (NW of Phillie).
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Paul_D_North_JrThanks for that additional info. I should have remembered CF&I at Birdsboro - I mentioned it a week or so ago in the 'Camel Fights ?' thread over on the Locomotives Forum, in the context of their ex-RDG 0-4-0 being one of only 3 preserved Camelbacks. I'd also been to both Phoenix Steel mills a couple of times. I didn't know that Claymont was also a CF&I mill. My recollection is that it was served only off the former PRR main line - I believe that the RDG's 'Chester' industrial branch which headed down that way ended at/ in the Sun Oil/ Sunoco refinery at Marcus Hook, which was just on the other/ Pennsylvania side of the PA-Delaware border. But I could be wrong about that - ConRail may have already reshuffled those tracks by the time I was there in the mid-1980s. The RDG's Wilmington and Northern branch southwards from Birdsboro went as far as the B&O main and yard at Elsmere, so it did have a presence in Delaware anyway
Sometimes the CF&I 0-4-0 would exchange whistle salutes with the Reading T-1s as they went through Birdsboro on the Iron Horse Rambles.
The Claymont mill was Worth Steel, then CF&I, and in the 1960s? was taken over by Phoenix Steel. They had a track that ran under US13 and the PRR along Naamans Creek. The Reading ran through the Sun Oil refinery and IINM crossed into DE to a location called North Claymont DE. The RDG got awful close to the mill tracks, but I don't know if they ever connected. I have seen a listing for a RDG North Claymont Station someplace, but can't remember where
The RDG W&N crossed the B&O at Elsmere Jct. (JU) to reach a yard and engine facility in Wilmington and then crossed the Christiana (now called Christina) River on a swing bridge to reach the Delaware River at Pigeon Point, where there was a carfloat over to the Dupont Plant in New Jersey. The RDG would load and unload the float on the DE side and AFAIK Dupont shifted the float with their own engines on the NJ side. The RDG would send a tug down from Philadelphia to move the float.
Yep - now a Lehigh County Park. Been there and got the self-published 20 pg. plus pull-out maps 1995 booklet by Jean C. Stoneback and Eric A. Neubauer on it and the Catasauqua & Fogelsville Railroad Branch of the RDG about 6 years ago.
So how the heck does a guy from Omaha know about that one ?
There were many of those - too numerous to count. The Lehigh County Historical Society publication had a lengthy article and map on them about 20 years ago. They were basically on each side of the C&F line, plus along the aptly-named Ironton RR - jointly owned by the Reading and the Lehigh Valley - which ran from Coplay-Cementon to the west to and through Ironton to around Orefield.
Regarding size, by 1953 the RDG did have fewer cars than the ATSF or UP, but it did have more cars than the SLSF, CRIP, NKP, WAB, or ERIE. In 1928 it had more mileage than the LV.
So while it was smaller than many, I wouldn't characterize it a "miniscule" railroad.
Thanks for that additional info. I should have remembered CF&I at Birdsboro - I mentioned it a week or so ago in the 'Camel Fights ?' thread over on the Locomotives Forum, in the context of their ex-RDG 0-4-0 being one of only 3 preserved Camelbacks. I'd also been to both Phoenix Steel mills a couple of times. I didn't know that Claymont was also a CF&I mill. My recollection is that it was served only off the former PRR main line - I believe that the RDG's 'Chester' industrial branch which headed down that way ended at/ in the Sun Oil/ Sunoco refinery at Marcus Hook, which was just on the other/ Pennsylvania side of the PA-Delaware border. But I could be wrong about that - ConRail may have already reshuffled those tracks by the time I was there in the mid-1980s. The RDG's Wilmington and Northern branch southwards from Birdsboro went as far as the B&O main and yard at Elsmere, so it did have a presence in Delaware anyway.
Paul_D_North_Jr- RDG had a big iron ore business. Significant on-line mines were at Lebanon/ Cornwall and Morgantown, and a lot came in by ship to Phila. and was then hauled to Bethlehem. RDG served steel mills there, at Reading, Steelton/ Harrisburg, Conshohocken, Fairless Hills, Coatesville, and maybe some other places, too.
Some other steel mills along the Reading were Midvale and Pencoyd in Phila., Phoenix in Phoenixville, and CF&I at Birdsboro. I'm not sure if the RDG served the CF&I (later Phoenix) mill at Claymont DE. The Reading was known as the world's largest hauler of anthracite, but they hauled a lot of steel too.
The Reading's shop forces have already been mentioned. They had a very good reputation on other railroads. Sometimes they were referred to as "the dutchmen". It was a term of respect.
tomikawaTT The Reading was a common-carrier railroad, a subsidiary of an anthracite coal mining corporation. By comparison with PRR, UP or ATSF, it was miniscule.
Actually no. While the Reading was the Philadelphia and Reading and Owned the P&R Coal and Iron company it was one of the largest corporations in the United States (Holton's History of the P&R vol 1). At one point it controlled a railroad empire from Buffalo to New England and Boston to central Pennsylvannia to the Atlantic Ocean. For a brief moment in time it was the largest railroad corporation in the US. Then the financial dealing fell through and it shrunk dramatically. It also was for many decades larger in number of cars and tonnage hauled than a lot of the more famous western roads (such as the UP or ATSF). Nobody was bigger than the PRR in cars or tonnage until after its demise.
In an anti-trust suit the railroad was forced to separate from the Coal and Iron Company, and the railroad became the "Reading Company" (which is what its passenger cars say.on the letterboard).
Reading also had the best shops goign in the state. COnrail made a big mistake closing Reading shops and chosing to keep Juniata. But then I'm biased.
The PRR line from Philadelphia up the Schuykill is now all a biking/walking trail - the Reading lines are still in use. The Reading main from Philadelphia is the primary NS route west out of Phialdelphia. The Reading East Penn branch is part of one of the busiest main lines west from the ports of New Jersey. And they all meet in Reading. All the way to Harrisburg, freight travels the Reading tracks.
When Conrail was formed, the surviving standalone railroads gobbled up as much Reading power as they could - because the Reading locos were in better shape than the other bankrupts.
The Reading had a cohesive group of employees, unlike Penn Central which had constant infighting between the 'red' and 'green' teams (PRR and NYC). The Reading may well have been able to survive as an independent although any Northeast combination that excluded Readign would have rendered it isolated.
There is quite a bit of Reading heritage still around. Even the city's relatively new "Welcome to Reading" sign is done in the colors of the FP7 passenger diesels, black with a green band and yellow stripes. While the new crop of locals may no nothign of the Reading Company or even railroads in general, there are still plenty of people around who can remember the Reading in action. Plenty of information exists in the form of plans and drawings and company publications like the monthly employee magazine. Some significant structures have been lost due to vandalism like the Outer Station, but plenty others still survive - it was not without great effort the train shed at the Reading Terminal was saved and incorporated into the design of the convention center. Obviously there are no more trains, but you can stand there and imagine what it must have been like, especially at rush hour.
There have been plenty of bigger railroads, but none bettter than RDG!
Chuck/ tomikawaTT has covered the characteristics pretty well above.
Perhaps what made the RDG unique - which it was - was not any one of those traits, but the correlation and combination of them, in the aggregate. No other railroad had quite the same 'stew' of different railroad 'DNA'. Here are a few more:
- The early 1930s suburban Philadelphia passenger electrification, at 11 KV, 25 cycles - same as the PRR and NH, so it was in the 'big leagues' with them, not one of those dinky DC operations. The Reading didn't have to concede anything to PRR in that operation, either - its network of passenger lines was at least as extensive as the PRR's, and I suspect that the passenger loads were similar. The arched trainshed at Philadelphia was monumental, and still survives as the Convention Center. Also, the passenger train speed competition to the Atlantic City market with the PRR, which culminated with the joint Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines - 'PRSL' operation. Don't forget the RDC fleet, the stainless steel Crusader, and the joint operations from Washington to New Yprk City with the B&O and CNJ.
- The RDG's network of branch lines in eastern Pennsylvania was undoubtedly more extensive and market-dominating than PRR's. PRR never got to the Lehigh Valley, and had only a dinky single-track branch up along the Schuylkill River to Pottstown, and another along the North Branch of the Susquehanna River to Wilkes-Barre, whereas the RDG got as far northwest as Williamsport with significant main lines.
- RDG had extensive seaport and riverfront operations in Philadelphia - 'Port Reading' - as well as the street-running along Delaware Avenue with the PRR and the Philadelphia Belt Line Railroad. Also the ferry and carfloat operations across the Delaware and in the New York City harbor region.
- RDG had a big iron ore business. Significant on-line mines were at Lebanon/ Cornwall and Morgantown, and a lot came in by ship to Phila. and was then hauled to Bethlehem. RDG served steel mills there, at Reading, Steelton/ Harrisburg, Conshohocken, Fairless Hills, Coatesville, and maybe some other places, too.
- The colorful 1960s green and yellow diesel paint scheme.
- Don't forget that the Reading had it's own fleet of Camelbacks, too.
- Hall signals.
- Like several other railroads, the Reading had some rail sections that were unique to it - 100 RDG comes to mind as perhaps the most pervasive. Although it adopted the 130 RE section later on, the Reading developed its own standards and standard plans for switches and other trackwork, just like many other bigger railroads.
I'm sure there are other aspects that I've overlooked. What's notable is how much of the RDG survives today, as main or branch lines for either NS, CSX, SEPTA, RBM&N/ R&N, or other regionals or short lines.
Now, if Monopoly had been centered on San Francisco rather than New York, the "railroads" would be Coast, San Joaquin, Shasta, and Overland, all routes of the Southern Pacific Railroad. SP ruled! And think of place names like Market Street, Van Ness Avenue, Powell Street, Ocean Avenue, The Presidio, and so on.
Still, that's just OK. I only go to "The City" when there is no alternative (which isn't often). The suburbs have as much to offer (fine restaurants, concerts, live stage, etc.) without all the hassle, bridge tolls, high parking fees, bad traffic, etc..
Mark
about as relevant as monopoly.
grizlump9 [snip] now, where are/were Mack Trucks built? grizlump
You're serious ? Well, if it's relevant to this thread . . . used to be in Allentown, at around S. 10th St. and the Little Lehigh Creek, over to S. 8th St.; for about the last 20 years, at a fairly new factory in Lower Macungie Twp., just NW of Macungie, about 1/4 mile west of PA Rt. 100, in Lehigh County, PA, along the former RDG's East Pennsylvania Branch, now the NS Reading Line.
And if none of the above excellent comments 'do it' for you, how many railroads are named on the Monopoly game board? Surely that counts for something!
-Crandell
tomikawaTTIMHO, the Reading is a great prototype to model. Big, powerful steam, heavily-built mainline and highly visible passenger service - and that day is long enough gone that very few rivet counters are well informed about it.
IMHO, the Reading is a great prototype to model. Big, powerful steam, heavily-built mainline and highly visible passenger service - and that day is long enough gone that very few rivet counters are well informed about it.
Check out Reading & Northern, the modern successor prototype to the Reading, where the scenery is so green! The pictures lend a perspective to the possibilities and industries of the Reading which was noted for its steam operations, and interaction with other Class I railroads. Also see the photos at Reading & Northern passenger excursion division for the atmosphere where the Reading operated.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
Actually, all of the above.
IMHO, the Reading is a great prototype to model. Big, powerful steam, heavily-built mainline and highly visible passenger service - and that day is long enough gone that very few rivet counters are well informed about it. I can readily understand why it's special to you...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - where the major railroad was a government-owned monopoly)
My favorite railroad in the Reading. Primarily because it's the one my mother and uncle told be stories about. But after reading about it, I feel that it is fairly unique. But when reading about railroads in general, I hardly hear it mentioned, so I get the impression that what I've feel is unique about the Reading must no be so unique. Here are some things I think are unique/notable about the Reading:1) While they bought most of their locomotives from Baldwin, they built and rebuilt their own. They experimented with a 4-4-4, rebuilt 2-8-8-2s into 2-8-8-0s and 2-10-2s, streamlined passenger engines, and they rebuilt 2-8-0 I-10s into 4-8-4 T-1s. Do many railroads rebuild or build new types of locomotives?2) Isn't it true that John Wooten, the superintendent of motive power for the Philadelphia and Reading Railroad developed the Wooten firebox which lead to the camelback locomotive used by many other railroads.3) Is the Reading really a railroad, or is it just a coal company? Is it small compared to others such as the Union Pacific or Pennsylvania.
4) Or is it that it's a fallen flag, and has long passed from memory?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading