I have a handful of Athearn 62ft tank cars from ~25 years ago, I'm in the process of doing corrective surgery to make them resemble similar ones I see on the rails today. The Athearn bluebox model has a walking platform that completely surrounds the tank, whereas the only prototypes I've ever seen have a platform at each end, with pipe-like tubes running along each side of the tank, between the end platforms and the ladder (see photo in the link below).
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1684363
My first question is: Were there ever any prototypes of the 'vanilla' Athearn tank car, or was it a product of "imagineering"?
2nd question: Those tubes I referred to above - what exactly are they called? I plan to write a short article on this project, so I'd like to know the correct terminology if possible...
-Ken in Maryland (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)
This information was gleaned from the Modern Freight Cars List.
"Athearn makes an uninsulated ~25,000g DOT-111 (with a frame) based on ACFtanks built for the Burlington and Great Northern around 1960. It's calleda "62-foot tank car." (HO only) The model can be cut down several feet torepresent the ~20,000g tanks that were built in large numbers in the early'60s."
Rick
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
-----------------------------
AFAIK its called bracing.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
dti406 This information was gleaned from the Modern Freight Cars List. "Athearn makes an uninsulated ~25,000g DOT-111 (with a frame) based on ACFtanks built for the Burlington and Great Northern around 1960. It's calleda "62-foot tank car."" ...
"Athearn makes an uninsulated ~25,000g DOT-111 (with a frame) based on ACFtanks built for the Burlington and Great Northern around 1960. It's calleda "62-foot tank car."" ...
BRAKIE CSX_road_slug 2nd question: Those tubes I referred to above - what exactly are they called? ... AFAIK its called bracing.
CSX_road_slug 2nd question: Those tubes I referred to above - what exactly are they called? ...
Thanks for the replies Rick & Larry!
BRAKIE 2nd question: Those tubes I referred to above - what exactly are they called? I plan to write a short article on this project, so I'd like to know the correct terminology if possible... ----------------------------- AFAIK its called bracing.
If you are referring to the long, small diameter pipe that runs from end to end on the car, its purpose is to keep someone from stepping into the path of a car in motion, such as when switching, and getting hit by the bolster. I have seen / heard them referred to as "anti-personnel" bars.
There have been articles over the years in MR and RMC on converting the Athearn model, which has an underframe, into a frameless version such as the one that is pictured. I did four of them over time. They make decent stand-ins but I am waiting for someone to mass-produce the real deal.
John Timm
I'm sure they could also be kitbashed into a modern 30K gallon tank car like today's ethanol tank cars. I've heard cars lengths for anywhere from 60 feet to 72 feet long. Or as said you could chop em down into smaller cars. The cut out sections could be glued back together into some sort of storage tank.
I used one of those Athearn cars to create this frameless tankcar. I had sketched the prototype car one morning on the way home from nightshift (no camera).
I think that it's reasonably accurate, although I wasn't too familiar with tank cars, model or prototype.
Wayne
desertdog BRAKIE 2nd question: Those tubes I referred to above - what exactly are they called? I plan to write a short article on this project, so I'd like to know the correct terminology if possible... ----------------------------- AFAIK its called bracing. If you are referring to the long, small diameter pipe that runs from end to end on the car, its purpose is to keep someone from stepping into the path of a car in motion, such as when switching, and getting hit by the bolster. I have seen / heard them referred to as "anti-personnel" bars. There have been articles over the years in MR and RMC on converting the Athearn model, which has an underframe, into a frameless version such as the one that is pictured. I did four of them over time. They make decent stand-ins but I am waiting for someone to mass-produce the real deal. John Timm
John,I had to check..
A neighbor of mine is retired from Union Tank in Marion so,I ask him..Its a side impact brace.Its duty is to keep a vehicle from rupturing the shell of the car in the event of a grade crossing accident..
Now we both know..
Athearn first introduced this car in the later part of the 1960s, so a few years after the prototype was first introduced, but of a series of more or less modern freight cars that came out about that time. In the review in the June 1968 issue of Model Railroader, the reviewer said it was a Great American Transportation prototype with 105,000 pound capacity. It mentioned that Shippers Car Line Division of ACF "probably owns most cars of this type."
My copy of the GATX Tank Car Manual from 1966 (containing the business card of GATX Chief Mechanical Officer V.C. McMullen), shows a car of this general length and outline, an ICC 105A300-W insulated car, 20,500 gallon, and I note it had 36" wheels.
Dave Nelson
desertdogThere have been articles over the years in MR and RMC on converting the Athearn model, which has an underframe, into a frameless version such as the one that is pictured.
BRAKIE desertdog BRAKIE 2nd question: Those tubes I referred to above - what exactly are they called? I plan to write a short article on this project, so I'd like to know the correct terminology if possible... ----------------------------- AFAIK its called bracing. If you are referring to the long, small diameter pipe that runs from end to end on the car, its purpose is to keep someone from stepping into the path of a car in motion, such as when switching, and getting hit by the bolster. I have seen / heard them referred to as "anti-personnel" bars. There have been articles over the years in MR and RMC on converting the Athearn model, which has an underframe, into a frameless version such as the one that is pictured. I did four of them over time. They make decent stand-ins but I am waiting for someone to mass-produce the real deal. John Timm John,I had to check.. A neighbor of mine is retired from Union Tank in Marion so,I ask him..Its a side impact brace.Its duty is to keep a vehicle from rupturing the shell of the car in the event of a grade crossing accident.. Now we both know..
I may be mistaken, but if the OP is talking about the "tubing" that runs along the tank on the Athearn car, I believe it is simply handrails so that someone can be on the walkway (on the frame, not around the dome) and hang on. I don't see it as strong enough to add anything to the structure to keep it from rupturing and its not located in the right place to keep people out of the way.
EDIT: After rereading the post, I believe the OP is asking about the side impact brace.
Ricky
RedGrey62I may be mistaken, but if the OP is talking about the "tubing" that runs along the tank on the Athearn car, I believe it is simply handrails so that someone can be on the walkway (on the frame, not around the dome) and hang on. I don't see it as strong enough to add anything to the structure to keep it from rupturing and its not located in the right place to keep people out of the way. Ricky
Ricky, I think that they're referring to the linked photo in the first post of this thread. You are correct that the "tubing" on the original Athearn model was a handrail, but the remarks were in reference to the handrail-like pipe running between the stub-frames in the linked photo.
I find it difficult to believe that they're intended to prevent tank rupture by a road vehicle - being struck by a fat man on a bicycle would probably bend it.
I've also heard that it's for the protection of ground personnel, but, surprisingly, I could find no sites that even mention it. Many discussed head puncture protection, skid pads for bottom outlets and reinforcing for the stuffing box, but no mention of the "safety bars" by any name, including on sites for Procor, Union Tank, and the Transportation Safety Board of Canada.
dknelsonAthearn first introduced this car in the later part of the 1960s, so a few years after the prototype was first introduced, but of a series of more or less modern freight cars that came out about that time. In the review in the June 1968 issue of Model Railroader, the reviewer said it was a Great American Transportation prototype with 105,000 pound capacity. It mentioned that Shippers Car Line Division of ACF "probably owns most cars of this type." My copy of the GATX Tank Car Manual from 1966 (containing the business card of GATX Chief Mechanical Officer V.C. McMullen), shows a car of this general length and outline, an ICC 105A300-W insulated car, 20,500 gallon, and I note it had 36" wheels. Dave Nelson
ICC (now DOT) 105A is a class of pressure tank cars. The fittings on the Athearn model make it a general service car.
Is it an accurate model of any car or just a fairly close representation?
A few years ago I converted a couple to underframeless.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
BRAKIEdesertdog BRAKIE 2nd question: Those tubes I referred to above - what exactly are they called? I plan to write a short article on this project, so I'd like to know the correct terminology if possible... ----------------------------- AFAIK its called bracing. If you are referring to the long, small diameter pipe that runs from end to end on the car, its purpose is to keep someone from stepping into the path of a car in motion, such as when switching, and getting hit by the bolster. I have seen / heard them referred to as "anti-personnel" bars. There have been articles over the years in MR and RMC on converting the Athearn model, which has an underframe, into a frameless version such as the one that is pictured. I did four of them over time. They make decent stand-ins but I am waiting for someone to mass-produce the real deal. John Timm John,I had to check.. A neighbor of mine is retired from Union Tank in Marion so,I ask him..Its a side impact brace.Its duty is to keep a vehicle from rupturing the shell of the car in the event of a grade crossing accident.. Now we both know..
Could he be remembering incorrectly? Many cars designed to carry LPG that have the ladders on the ends do not have these bars.
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=21786
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=49164
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=44196
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=14310
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=36038
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=7442
ericspBRAKIEdesertdog BRAKIE 2nd question: Those tubes I referred to above - what exactly are they called? I plan to write a short article on this project, so I'd like to know the correct terminology if possible... ----------------------------- AFAIK its called bracing. If you are referring to the long, small diameter pipe that runs from end to end on the car, its purpose is to keep someone from stepping into the path of a car in motion, such as when switching, and getting hit by the bolster. I have seen / heard them referred to as "anti-personnel" bars. There have been articles over the years in MR and RMC on converting the Athearn model, which has an underframe, into a frameless version such as the one that is pictured. I did four of them over time. They make decent stand-ins but I am waiting for someone to mass-produce the real deal. John Timm John,I had to check.. A neighbor of mine is retired from Union Tank in Marion so,I ask him..Its a side impact brace.Its duty is to keep a vehicle from rupturing the shell of the car in the event of a grade crossing accident.. Now we both know.. Could he be remembering incorrectly? Many cars designed to carry LPG that have the ladders on the ends do not have these bars.http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=21786 http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=49164 http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=44196 http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=14310 http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=36038 http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=7442
desertdog,I will respectfully disagree with that list.
Leon spent 34 years working on tank cars and I am inclined to believe him over a list any day.
You see I can see and fully understand a side impact brace being mandated by the Feds.After all these are the same folks that mandated the collision brace found on both ends of the tank car.
Sorry, folks, but I have to agree with John: they're "anti-personnel bars". If they were a feature of tank safety (protecting the integrity of the tank itself), surely they would be discussed as such in at least one of the many sites which I visited trying to find the proper name for them. I looked at tank car development, technology, accident investigations, government-mandated design requirements and so on. Lots of talk about tank head protection, skid protection for bottom-mounted equipment, reinforcement of top-mounted equipment, pressure relief devices, and tank strengthening measures. Also information about in-service fatigue of stub frames, but no mention of those bars, even on diagrams showing tank car safety devices.
Whether they're pipe or solid steel rod, any vehicle heavier than a bicycle hitting them would seriously deform them to the point that they would strike the tank body. If the point of impact occurred at one of the braces, would it puncture the tank's shell?
I've just now sent an e-mail to PROCOR, requesting a definitive answer to this question, and, if I don't hear back from them, will 'phone them tomorrow and report my findings here.
BRAKIE desertdog,I will respectfully disagree with that list. Leon spent 34 years working on tank cars and I am inclined to believe him over a list any day. You see I can see and fully understand a side impact brace being mandated by the Feds.After all these are the same folks that mandated the collision brace found on both ends of the tank car.
Brakie,
I made a quick review this morning of the original tank car safety recommendations, as well as updates, and find nothing with reference to side protection "devices." The recommendations (and later on, mandates) address things like couplers, head shielding, jacketing, outlet protection, tank wall thickness, welding, etc.
In any case, the "anti-personnel bar" (I'll stick with the term) is so small in diameter, I do not see how it could offer much, if any, side impact protection in a derailment.
Well guys,you'ns just march right on up to Leon's house and tell 'im he doesn't know UTLX tank cars--I 'll halp pick youse guys up from the ground..
Be warned even tho's he's 65 there isn't any flab on his body-that's from handling steel parts repairing tank cars for the last 34 years.
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Maybe there several names for the same thing?
Recall that collision bar on the end of the tank car isn't very strong looking either and that suppopse to protect the ends of the tank car in a derailment.
doctorwayne ...no mention of those bars, even on diagrams showing tank car safety devices. ... I've just now sent an e-mail to PROCOR, requesting a definitive answer to this question, and, if I don't hear back from them, will 'phone them tomorrow and report my findings here.
...no mention of those bars, even on diagrams showing tank car safety devices.
...
Here's a LINK to the tank head protection standards (scroll down to "Schedule Specifications for Safety Equipment - clause 2). As I noted previously, I've been searching for info on those bars and nowhere can I find them even mentioned, nor are they identified on drawings or photos with tags identifying the various safety features. If I don't hear back from Procor (the Canadian subsidiary of Union Tank) by noon tomorrow, I'll give them a 'phone call.
Here's a LINK to a PROCOR gallery of railcar photos (including tank cars). You would have trouble convincing me that that flimsy-looking bar offers any protection against vehicular incursions.
Wayne,Don't forget this "collision bar" that goes across the end is suppose to protect a tanker in a derailment.
http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=prox623&o=procor
According to the drawings on UTLX website they are simply refered to as "Side Safety Rail" and the end ones "End Hand Rails"
Click on the Tank Car Charts
http://www.utlx.com/31point.html
RedGrey62According to the drawings on UTLX website they are simply refered to as "Side Safety Rail" and the end ones "End Hand Rails" Click on the Tank Car Charts http://www.utlx.com/31point.html Ricky
Larry, I think that Ricky is correct: the item across the top of the endsill is merely a handrail. The head shield is hidden by the tank jacket.
While looking for information on the head shield, I came across THIS. If you scroll about halfway down the page, you'll see a section dealing with "Tank Cars Without Underframes" and mention of both the end handrails and side "safety railings". Here's a quote copied from the linked page:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
End Platform Safety Railing
Number
255. Two.
Dimensions
256. Minimum of 7/8 inch diameter, wrought iron or steel, or one and 1 1/4 inch pipe. Minimum clearance, 2 1/2 inches.
Location
257. One safety railing at each end of car shall extend horizontally across car not less than 36 inches nor more than 54 inches above end platform, and shall extend in a vertical direction down to end platform within three inches of the end of the platform. The safety railing shall be located not more than six inches from the inside edge of the platform.
Manner of Application
258. Safety railings shall be supported at the centre, and be securely attached to end platforms.
Side Railing
259. Two.
260. 1 1/4-inch iron or steel pipe. Minimum clearance, 2 1/2 inches.
261. One on each side of car, extending from end platform to end platform at a distance of not less than 51 inches from centre line of car, except that where break in side railing is necessary for side ladder or operating cabinet, the side railing shall be securely attached to such ladder and/or cabinet.
262. Side railings shall be securely attached to end platforms, and be supported from the car at intervals not exceeding 10 feet.
The above notwithstanding, I'll still contact Procor tomorrow. Maybe they'll at least have a name for those side thingamajigs.
Given the fact that tankcars designed to carry flammable gases commonly do not have those bars on the side, they cannot be protection for a collision. Which is more important to protect, a car carrying corn syrup or a car carrying a flammable gas?
This thread has a photograph of the CBQ car.
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/139881.aspx
I talked to Leon again last night at length and his words-I didn't include the expletives he used:
Those are indeed "collision bars" mandated by the FRA.If'n they work-chuckle-there's a lot of weight being toss about in a wreck and we have seen on the news tank car explosions and leaks after a wreck..You could calls 'em safety bars,anti personnel bars,monkey bars,candy bars,side rods or any thing you wish but,the hard fact remains they are collision bars.I ain't never heard the things called by any other name in the 34 years I spent repairing/rebuilding tank cars...
BRAKIEI talked to Leon again last night at length and his words-I didn't include the expletives he used: Those are indeed "collision bars" mandated by the FRA.If'n they work-chuckle-there's a lot of weight being toss about in a wreck and we have seen on the news tank car explosions and leaks after a wreck..You could calls 'em safety bars,anti personnel bars,monkey bars,candy bars,side rods or any thing you wish but,the hard fact remains they are collision bars.I ain't never heard the things called by any other name in the 34 years I spent repairing/rebuilding tank cars...
Why would the FRA mandate collision bars on cars carrying non-dangerous liquids but not on cars carrying LPG?
The bold has been added my me. UTLX's literature refers to them as "side safety bars."http://www.utlx.com/pdf/anatomy_lpg.pdf
Just an update of sorts: I haven't heard back from Procor and was, unfortunately, not around today to 'phone them. I haven't forgotten, though, and will call them on Monday.