Leaf Spring Vs. Coil Spring Trucks?

[fwdguy]

The title is the question, what is the difference?

Was Leaf Spring only used for caboose and loco tenders?

And was Coil Spring only used for freight?

I have an old Silver Streak Standard Caboose kit I need to buy trucks for and there are so many to choose from and I am confused.

Thanks on any history and info....

Mark

[twhite]

Mark--

To my knowledge, and someone else correct me if I'm wrong, leaf spring trucks were used mainly on Pullman-standard 6-wheel trucks, standard cabooses, and some--not a lot--tender trucks.  I grew up in the 'forties and 'fifties, when both steam and cabooses were in general use, and I don't ever remember seeing them on freight cars.  

I've got several Silver Streak cabooses myself--copies of the SP C-30 wooden cabooses, and they still have the leaf spring trucks that came with the original kits (these cars are well over 40 years old, BTW), but I don't know how readily available the trucks are these days from current manufacturers.  I'd scout around with Athearn, Proto and Intermountain.  I know that Central Valley used to make them (their trucks were FANTASTIC!) but that might take some scouting around.

But to answer your question:  Leaf springs=trucks on a standard caboose, most of the time. 

Tom

 

 

 

[tomikawaTT]

In the US, cabooses used whatever the mechanical department felt was appropriate, which often (but not always) included leaf springs.  The best way to get a good approximation of appropriate trucks is to find photos of the prototype, of cabooses run by the same company or of cabooses operated in the same geographical area.

In Japan EVERYTHING rode on leaf springs - a source of considerable frustration to me when I kitbash, since all of my kitbash fodder comes with coil spring trucks...

OTOH, coil springs are the rule under US prototype freight equipment.  That said, there are a LOT of different types of trucks - yet most RTR and kit manufacturers use a 'generic' truck.  I could see that being a source of frustration to the confirmed perfectionists among us.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[mlehman]

 Chuckcovers the issue pretty well. Trucks got what the mechnical dept. specified and that can vary from road to road and in different eras. Leaf springs give a much better ride.

I'll add that some express boxcars also received leaf sprung trucks.

[dknelson]

Don't forget that steam locomotive drivers had leaf springs. 

At one time Walthers made a leaf spring conversion set for freight and passenger car trucks -- shim brass bent in V shape, with tiny holes that would engage the small pins intended to hold the springs in sprung trucks.  So in theory it was a "working" leaf spring although it did not look a great deal like the prototype.  Somewhat tricky to install as I recall.  I probably have a sheet of them somewhere.  I suppose you could make your own out of shim brass. 

 I believe Bowser makes or made something similar in more recent times, but if I recall correctly their "leaf spring" had a normal spring hidden inside of it, so it was a working spring but not actually a working leaf spring. 

Eastern Car Works made leaf spring plastic castings that would fit into a variety of trucks as a sort of nonworking, but more realistic looking, leaf spring.  I know those castings come with their truck kits but I seem to recall it was available as a separate part.

Dave Nelson

 

[staybolt]

Don't know if you'll see this, since the discussion occurred about 10 yrs. ago (!), but I'll give it a shot.

I'm coming to you since you seem to have researched the subject, live (at least 10 yrs. ago) in IL where I live (St. Charles), and may know something about the IL road I model, viz. the EJ&E. The period I model is the 1920s. I'm trying to determine about when the EJ&E may have switched (if it did) from coil to leaf springs for its cabooses. The earliest photo I've found is from ejearchive.com. It shows a wood-sided caboose with archbar trucks incorporating leaf springs. The wood and the truck design would suggest the '20s or earlier, but the sides of the car are emblazoned with the "Buy War Bonds" message, which is from WWII ('40s). The similar WWI (19-teens) message was "Buy A Liberty Bond". Of course, the road could've just happen to have chosen an old car for the message. Odd thing about that is, though, archbar trucks were banned from service sometime in the '30s, weren't they? If so, the road wouldn't have used the car in a train, thus hardly anybody would have seen the war bond entreaty.    

Have any ideas, or could you suggest any other info sources?

                                 Thanks,

                                      Chuck

         

[mlehman]

staybolt

Odd thing about that is, though, archbar trucks were banned from service sometime in the '30s, weren't they?

From _interchange_ service is what archbars were banned from. Captive equipment that stayed on line could continue to run archbars. Cabooses are one example where they continued to run, along with a lot of MOW rolling stock. As newer design trucks wore and became available, these eventually replaced archbars under such equipment or it simply got scrapped years later.

[doctorwayne]

I don't recall the company from which I bought them, but a number of years ago I acquired some phosphor-bronze leaf springs.  I used them in Kadee sprung trucks under my cabooses.
However, they had little-to-no-springiness, so after installing them, I also re-installed the Kadee coil springs, mostly to keep the leaf springs from falling out...

(all of these photos should enlarge if clicked-on)

This is an ex-CPR caboose from True Line, with the leaf springs moulded as part of the trucks...

This Pennsy boxcar, from Bowser, uses trucks with one coil spring and one leaf spring,  moulded as part of the sideframe.  They may have been included in the kit, but Bowser also offers the trucks separately...

This modified Train Miniature boxcar uses trucks from Tangent, with a moulded coil spring on each side of the leaf spring...

Another Tangent truck, this one on a caboose, with leaf springs represented...

I believe that the trucks under this X-29 boxcar, from Train Miniature, are from Tichy....

This ex-reefer, from Athearn, was modified to represent an insulated express car, and uses Athearn express-style trucks...

Pretty-well all of my steam locomotives, whether plastic or brass, have leaf-type springs for the tender trucks, some moulded as part of the truck sideframes, and others as individual parts...

Central Valley four-wheel passenger trucks, slightly modified, under the scratchbuilt tender...

...and the stock Bachmann tender trucks under the shortened tenders of these Bachmann Ten Wheelers...

Fairly recently, I've modified most of the Kadee sprung trucks under my freight cars, by adding a view-block behind the working springs, as I don't like the see-through appearance.  A real truck might have six or eight springs, allowing little daylight to be seen behind them.

I used cut-up Kadee draught gear boxes and/or Evergreen black styrene sheet material to stop the see-through look, ca-ing it to the bolster and sideframes...

A Westerfield hopper with the modifed Kadee trucks...

Here's a reefer without the view blocks...

...and the same car with them installed...

Wayne

 

[Overmod]

Leaf springs, with or without rubber or Fabreeka springs or blocks, give a smoother ride if the vehicle is not expected to differ greatly in weight between empty and loaded.  That makes them a natural for cabooses, where typical coil spring trucks would likely exhibit short-period undamped bounce.

Meanwhile, modern coil spring trucks get around the high-speed damping issue the same way as the original scheme for the PRR GG1 did: using the principle of 'snubbers'.  You will notice that a modern coil-spring truck has a nest of up to nine coil springs, sometimes supplemented with rubber blocks, and inside some of those springs are others, which can be 'wound the other way'.  These springs have different constants, including spring rate, so any bouncing or other resonances developed in the suspension are damped out before they can build up in period.  The important thing here is that reasonable ride quality (at least good enough not to break things in the load) is available whether the springs are up all the way or compressed under full rated load, and the three-piece action of the trucks works well over the full range of spring excursion.

[staybolt]

I realized after my post that I shouldn't have had the parenthetical "(if it did)", regarding EJ&E's switch to leaf springs. The photo I found shows a caboose with leaf springs so the road did switch. I'd just like to know when it switched.

[OT Dean]

fwdguy

The title is the question, what is the difference?

Was Leaf Spring only used for caboose and loco tenders?

And was Coil Spring only used for freight?

I have an old Silver Streak Standard Caboose kit I need to buy trucks for and there are so many to choose from and I am confused.

Thanks on any history and info....

Mark

 

Leaf springs were commonly used in swing-motion trucks, which have a double bolster system to allow sideways motion.  Swing-motion trucks give a much smoother ride, quite important in cabooses, since they were normally occupied by the conductor and rear-end brakeman, who also served as flagman for the train.  Steam locomotives don't develop their full horsepower from a dead stop, so the engineer would first back up the train to use the slack of the couplers, then ease forward "taking up the slack."  This allowed him to take the weight of each car with a slight pause between cars all down the line.  By the time the whole train had started moving, the caboose would start with a real jerk.  And if the drivers slipped before the whole train started moving, he'd have to start the procedure all over again.  One author described the caboose being "shaken like a dog shaking a bone."  As I said, the swing-motion trucks gave a much smoother ride, so they were sometimes used under reefers to help protect less robust cargo.  Several roads, the C&NW and CB&Q come to mind, actually used trucks resembling 4-wheel passenger trucks under their cabooses, as passenger trucks were also of swing-motion design.  Those leaf-spring trucks give your caboose fleet a more distinctive look.

Swing-motion trucks were also preferred for use under tenders, I suppose because of they smoothed the side-to-side thrusts of all that weight.  (Some tender tanks were reinforced by double layers of steel at the rear for the same reason.)  In my HO days, '60s through the '80s, many manufacturers of steam loco kits provided leaf-spring trucks, either rigid (the kingpin screws usually had a little extra play) or equalized (sideframes attached to truck bolsters with free-action screws).  I equipped my HO caboose fleet with swing-motion Fox Patent trucks--and I have some for my O scale tenders (my road uses 4-wheel bobbers).  In O scale, PSC makes those replacement leaf springs of phosphor-bronze--and yes, they don't have much springiness, though more than the HO kind, I'm sure, as O scale cars generally weigh at least a half-pound.  (The coil springs behind the HO product looks like a good idea!)  All these choices make model railroading interesting!

Deano