Trans border railroading

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone

Can anyone tell me what the deal is (and was) with trains crossing the US-Canadian border?

What sort of regulations were there about locomotives, freight, crews, etc when crossing from one country to another? Was every single train stopped to have its paperwork checked or its cargo examined by customs for example?

Could a Canadian train or Canadian railroad haul domestic US freight or was that off limits? And vice versa for US railroads? Could Canadian crews operate on US tracks and such? What sort of things did the railroads do in relation to it that wasnt strictly a rule?

My main interest is how it worked during the late 70's and into the 80's. Thanks for all the help.

[CP5170]

I worked in the Canadian Pacific yard in Windsor Ontario in the mid 1960s. Freight cars arrived in the yard to be shipped into or thru Canada from two sources. There was a car ferry system that transported cars across the Detroit river and the C&O came into Canada via a tunnel under the same river. In both cases, an agent from Canada Customs would walk the train with a car-checker to verify that the loaded cars were sealed. We would place a Customs seal on all loaded cars and open the doors to verify that the box or reefers were indeed empty. On the midnight shift (which I worked) it was always a bit tense doing this inspection in case someone was in the car. However, in the four years that I did the car-checker job, I never found anyone. I do not remember specifically but I would assume that the C&O crew would check in with the Customs officials ( they had an office in the CP yard office) when they landed in the yard. I know that the NYC ran thru southern Ontario but I am not familiar with the practices that they were required to meet.

Both Canadian Pacific and Canadian National run trains into the US and there are several roads that run into or thru Canada. I am not familiar with which roads. In southwestern Ontario, Amtrak (US passenger service) run from New York thru to Detroit. I know that you can board the train in London Ontario. There is a Customs inspection each time you enter either the US or Canada.

If I can be of further assistance, fire away...Ken

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the help.

I was wondering because i plan to model a freelance shortline railroad that heads from around Seattle past Ross Lake and into southern Canada where it would somewhere meet up with either the CN or CP or both. It would be set in probably the mid 80s and i'm trying to justify a reason for its existance.

Besides hauling logs i imagine my line would haul through freight to and from Canada but it would need something special to lure traffic beacuse (of course) my line has steep grades, a twisty, windy route, and requires helpers.

I figure part of its appeal could be that it has somehow obtained a special permit from the US and Canada that allow customs checks to be done as the train is being marshalled at either terminus and then the cars are sealed and the train runs express across the border and is then rechecked by customs when it is being broken up at the destination.

Is this something that is even remotely prototypical? or does this thing happen all the time already? if it does did it happen already in the 80's?

[CP5170]

I was wondering because i plan to model a freelance shortline railroad that heads from around Seattle past Ross Lake and into southern Canada where it would somewhere meet up with either the CN or CP or both. It would be set in probably the mid 80s and i'm trying to justify a reason for its existance.

Seems reasonable to me. While I live in southern Ontario, I'm sure that there is a railway connection between Washington state and B.C.

Besides hauling logs i imagine my line would haul through freight to and from Canada but it would need something special to lure traffic beacuse (of course) my line has steep grades, a twisty, windy route, and requires helpers.

Your road would probably deliver fruit and vegetables from California to western Canada as well as automobiles and manufactured items. The Okanogan Valley in B.C. is rich with fruit and some of that would be shipped to the U.S. Canada exports beef from the prairies and wood products from B.C.

Most items from the western US states headed for the eastern part of Canada would go thru Chicago and points east.

I figure part of its appeal could be that it has somehow obtained a special permit from the US and Canada that allow customs checks to be done as the train is being marshalled at either terminus and then the cars are sealed and the train runs express across the border and is then rechecked by customs when it is being broken up at the destination.

Is this something that is even remotely prototypical? or does this thing happen all the time already? if it does did it happen already in the 80's?

If the terminus was close to the border, I'm sure that is how it was and is still done.

Hopefully someone on the west coast will jump in and enlighten both of us.

Good luck...Ken

[Wdlgln005]

You might want to check out operations of the GTW or CV. Canadian crews could oiperate into the US to a point, but would return at the end of the day. During periods of power shortage, units may be able to run thru to the end of the line. GTW had a yard at Port Huron, but then they used an electric locomotive to take the cars thru the tunnel over to Sarnia. Large & oversize loads had to use the carferry.

For your use, some locomotives would have distictive featured like ditch lights, winter hatches & such. THere would be a division point to swap power & crews. You may also want to have some CN-CP power that would take the next freight out.

[BR60103]

There were also customs duties considerations. Using the TH&B as an example, NYC ran its locomotives through to Toronto, but they were only given a one day pass. (there were concessions if the loco broke down in Canada). Locos that were going to be across the border for some time would have to pay large sums in duty.
There were a few branchlines from Northern Pacific into southern BC, (which were the reason for CPR building the Kettle Valley line). If a line has a charter to run in an area, it can carry local freight. (regulations are different for boats and airlines -- look up "cabotage").