Plug door box car question...

[mbinsewi]

Bob, the thread is 10 years old, and Jeffrey is no longer with us, as he has moved on to that great model railroad above, , with no way to defend himself, except maybe a lightning strike!

Mike.

[Thecitrusbelt]

In addition to the plug door error, this list states in error "1958: The first mechanical reefers (utilizing diesel-powered refrigeration units) enter revenue service."

FGE introduced the first production mechanical reefers in 1949, although there had been earlier experiments with such cars. PFE and Santa Fe introduce mechanical reefers to their fleets in 1953.

Bob Chaparro

Citrus Industry Modeling Group

https://groups.io/g/RailroadCitrusIndustryModelingGroup

[jeffrey-wimberly]

JW - Sorry to prove you wrong.

This is from Branchline Trains' website.  They're usually very good with their historical research.  Note that it says "gained in popularity" in the 1950's which would mean that they were invented prior to then.

I already stated that I was in error. They were talking boxcars, I was looking at reefers.

[jktrains]

JW - Sorry to prove you wrong.

This is from Branchline Trains' website.  They're usually very good with their historical research.  Note that it says "gained in popularity" in the 1950's which would mean that they were invented prior to then.

http://www.branchline-trains.com/blueprint/50boxcars/50pdaar/50pdaar.htm

http://www.branchline-trains.com/blueprint/50boxcars/50%27pdgarx/50pdgarx.htm

A different source references a 40ft boxcar with plug doors designed in 1950.

http://dti.railfan.net/Equipment_Database/DTI19000s40'InsulBoxcar/ArtDTI19300s.html

JW, also would have been nice if you cited your source.  As it is, it looks like a chronology you created from your own research, instead of the work of someone else.

[jrbernier]

  Plug door box cars and plug door 'bunkerless' reefers look very similar.  The difference is the 'insulation' in the walls/roof.  The reefer version(RBL type) provide 3-7 days of constant temp storage while in transit.  These cars many times are 'pre-cooled' before loading, and canned goods or even flash-frozen foods are loaded.

  Plug door boxcars provide a smooth wall surface(when the door is closed) for stacking the load against.  There are many example of combination plug/sliding door cars that are dual service, in that they have a large opening(forklift accessible), and the plug doors can be closed to provide more 'cubes' of 'load' area.  The area across from the sliding door usually does not have any cargo placed there.  'Dunnage' keeps the load from shifting.  The exceptions to no cargo by the sliding doors are items like grain or lumber.

Jim

 

[dehusman]

Actually plug door boxcars date back to the 1890's:

http://www.win.org/library/services/lhgen/SCcarco/CarCo4.htm

Look at ATSF 19215 and PV 572.

http://www.westerfield.biz/

Look at the PRR XL class boxcars.

Dave H.

[Tracklayer]

Your plug door box cars should be fine for a late 1950's time period.

Thanks Mr.SP. Now I can use the car without wondering whether it's right or not. Something like that wouldn't bother most people but it bugs the living you know what out of me...

Tracklayer

[Tracklayer]

Your plug door box cars should be fine for a late 1950's time period.

I disagree. The first plug door cars were introduced in the 1960's. 

The first refrigerated boxcar enters service on the Northern Railroad of New York in 1851.

• 1857: The first consignment of refrigerated, dressed beef travels from Chicago stockyards to the East Coast in ordinary box cars packed with ice.
• 1866: Horticulturist Parker Earle ships strawberries in iced boxes by rail from southern Illinois to Chicago on the Illinois Central Railroad.
• 1868: William Davis of Detroit, Michigan develops a refrigerator car cooled by a frozen ice-salt mixture, and patents it in the U.S. The patent is subsequently sold to George Hammond, a local meat packer who goes on to amass a fortune in refrigerated shipping.
• 1876: German engineer Carl von Linde develops one of the first mechanical refrigeration systems.
• 1878: Gustavus Swift (along with engineer Andrew Chase) develops the first practical ice-cooled railcar; soon thereafter, Swift forms the Swift Refrigerator Line (SRL), the world's first.
• 1880: The first patent for a mechanically-refrigerated railcar issued in the United States is granted to Charles William Cooper.
• 1884: The Santa Fe Refrigerator Despatch (SFRD) is established as a subsidiary of the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway to carry perishable commodities.
• 1885: Berries from Norfolk, Virginia are shipped by refrigerator car to New York.
• 1887 Parker Earle joined F.A. Thomas of Chicago in the fruit shipping business. The company owned 60 ice-cooled railcars by 1888, and 600 by 1891.
• 1888: Armour & Co. ships beef from Chicago to Florida in a car cooled by ethyl chloride-compression machinery. Florida oranges are shipped to New York under refrigeration for the first time.
• 1889: The first cooled shipment of deciduous fruit from California is sold on the New York market.
• 1898: Russia's first refrigerator cars enter service. The country's inventory will reach 1,900 by 1908, grow to 3,000 just two years later, and top out at approximately 5,900 by 1916. The cars were utilized mainly for transporting butter from Siberia to the Baltic Sea (a 12-day journey).
• 1899: Refrigerated fruit traffic within the U.S. reaches 90,000 short tons per year; Transport from California to NY averaged 12 days in 1900.
• 1901: Carl von Linde equips a Russian train with a mobile, central mechanical refrigeration plant to distribute cooling to cars carrying perishable goods; similar systems will be used in Russia as late as 1975.
• 1905: U.S. traffic in refrigerated fruit reaches 430,000 short tons. As refrigerator car designs become standardized, the practice of indicating the "patentee" on the sides is discontinued.
• 1907: The Pacific Fruit Express begins operations with more than 6,000 refrigerated cars, transporting fruit and vegetables across the United States from Western producers to Eastern consumers. U.S. traffic in refrigerated fruit hits 600,000 short tons.
• 1908: Japan's first refrigerator cars enter service. The cars are for fish and seafoods transportation, in the same manner as most other Japanese refers.
• 1913: The number of thermally-insulated railcars (most of which were cooled by ice) in the U.S. tops 100,000.
• 1920: The Fruit Growers Express (or FGE, a former subsidiary of the Armour Refrigerator Line) is formed using 4,280 reefers acquired from Armour & Co.
• 1923: FGE and the Great Northern Railway for the Western Fruit Express (WFE) in order to compete with the Pacific Fruit Express and Santa Fe Refrigerator Despatch in the West.
• 1925–1930: Mechanically-refrigerated trucks enter service and gain public acceptance, particularly for the delivery of milk and ice cream.
• 1926: The FGE expands its service into the Pacific Northwest and the Midwest through the WFE and the Burlington Refrigerator Express Company (BREX), its other partly-owned subsidiary. FGE purchases 2,676 reefers from the Pennsylvania Railroad.
• 1928: The FGE forms the National Car Company as a subsidiary to service the meat transportation market; customers include Kahns, Oscar Mayer, and Rath.
• 1930: The number of refrigerator cars in the United States reaches its maximum of approximately 183,000 units.
• 1931: The SFRD reconfigures 7 reefers to utilize dry ice as a cooling agent.
• 1932: Japanese Government Railways builds vehicles specially made for dry ice coolant.
• 1936: The first all-steel reefers enter service.
• 1937: The Interstate Commerce Commission bans "billboard" type advertisements on railroad cars.
• 1946: Two experimental aluminum-body refrigerator cars enter service on the PFE; an experimental reefer with a stainless-steel body is built for the SFRD.
• 1950: The U.S. refrigerator car roster drops to 127,200.
• 1957: The last ice bunker refrigerator cars are built.
• 1958: The first mechanical reefers (utilizing diesel-powered refrigeration units) enter revenue service.
• 1960s: The flush, "plug" style sliding door is introduced as an option that provides a larger door to ease loading and unloading of certain commodities. The tight-fitting doors are better insulated and allow a car's interior to be maintained at a more even temperature.
• 1966: Japanese National Railways starts operation of fish freight express trains by newly built "resa 10000" type refers.
• 1969: ACF constructs a number of experimental center flow hopper cars which incorporate mechanical cooling systems and insulated cargo cells; the units are intended for shipment of bulk perishables.
• 1971: The last ice-cooled reefers are retired from service.
• 1980: The U.S. refrigerator car roster drops to 80,000.
• 1986: The last refers in Japan are replaced by refer containers.
• 1990s: The first cryogenically-cooled reefers enter service.
• 2001: The number of refrigerator cars in the United States "bottoms out" at approximately 8,000.
• 2005: The number of reefers in the United States climbs to approximately 25,000, the result of significant new refrigerator car orders.

 

Dang Jeffrey... Talk about getting down to the nitty gritty!. I sure appreciate all of the priceless info and you taking the time to provide it - even if it was a reaction to a misunderstanding.

Tracklayer

[jeffrey-wimberly]

OK, you were looking at plug door box cars and I was looking at plug door reefers. 

[VAPEURCHAPELON]

Your plug door box cars should be fine for a late 1950's time period.

I disagree. The first plug door cars were introduced in the 1960's. 

The first refrigerated boxcar enters service on the Northern Railroad of New York in 1851.

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Jeff,

impressive posting, but probably exactly in that point inaccurate. I have a video showing SP Cab Forwards in the mid 1950s, and they were hauling plug-door box cars!

The source you were qouteing from says "1960s" - which is far away from being accurate.

Additionally, PFE used plug doors on its R40-25/26 reefers being built in the 1950s as well. There probably are other examples, too. 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Your plug door box cars should be fine for a late 1950's time period.

I disagree. The first plug door cars were introduced in the 1960's. 

The first refrigerated boxcar enters service on the Northern Railroad of New York in 1851.

• 1857: The first consignment of refrigerated, dressed beef travels from Chicago stockyards to the East Coast in ordinary box cars packed with ice.
• 1866: Horticulturist Parker Earle ships strawberries in iced boxes by rail from southern Illinois to Chicago on the Illinois Central Railroad.
• 1868: William Davis of Detroit, Michigan develops a refrigerator car cooled by a frozen ice-salt mixture, and patents it in the U.S. The patent is subsequently sold to George Hammond, a local meat packer who goes on to amass a fortune in refrigerated shipping.
• 1876: German engineer Carl von Linde develops one of the first mechanical refrigeration systems.
• 1878: Gustavus Swift (along with engineer Andrew Chase) develops the first practical ice-cooled railcar; soon thereafter, Swift forms the Swift Refrigerator Line (SRL), the world's first.
• 1880: The first patent for a mechanically-refrigerated railcar issued in the United States is granted to Charles William Cooper.
• 1884: The Santa Fe Refrigerator Despatch (SFRD) is established as a subsidiary of the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway to carry perishable commodities.
• 1885: Berries from Norfolk, Virginia are shipped by refrigerator car to New York.
• 1887 Parker Earle joined F.A. Thomas of Chicago in the fruit shipping business. The company owned 60 ice-cooled railcars by 1888, and 600 by 1891.
• 1888: Armour & Co. ships beef from Chicago to Florida in a car cooled by ethyl chloride-compression machinery. Florida oranges are shipped to New York under refrigeration for the first time.
• 1889: The first cooled shipment of deciduous fruit from California is sold on the New York market.
• 1898: Russia's first refrigerator cars enter service. The country's inventory will reach 1,900 by 1908, grow to 3,000 just two years later, and top out at approximately 5,900 by 1916. The cars were utilized mainly for transporting butter from Siberia to the Baltic Sea (a 12-day journey).
• 1899: Refrigerated fruit traffic within the U.S. reaches 90,000 short tons per year; Transport from California to NY averaged 12 days in 1900.
• 1901: Carl von Linde equips a Russian train with a mobile, central mechanical refrigeration plant to distribute cooling to cars carrying perishable goods; similar systems will be used in Russia as late as 1975.
• 1905: U.S. traffic in refrigerated fruit reaches 430,000 short tons. As refrigerator car designs become standardized, the practice of indicating the "patentee" on the sides is discontinued.
• 1907: The Pacific Fruit Express begins operations with more than 6,000 refrigerated cars, transporting fruit and vegetables across the United States from Western producers to Eastern consumers. U.S. traffic in refrigerated fruit hits 600,000 short tons.
• 1908: Japan's first refrigerator cars enter service. The cars are for fish and seafoods transportation, in the same manner as most other Japanese refers.
• 1913: The number of thermally-insulated railcars (most of which were cooled by ice) in the U.S. tops 100,000.
• 1920: The Fruit Growers Express (or FGE, a former subsidiary of the Armour Refrigerator Line) is formed using 4,280 reefers acquired from Armour & Co.
• 1923: FGE and the Great Northern Railway for the Western Fruit Express (WFE) in order to compete with the Pacific Fruit Express and Santa Fe Refrigerator Despatch in the West.
• 1925–1930: Mechanically-refrigerated trucks enter service and gain public acceptance, particularly for the delivery of milk and ice cream.
• 1926: The FGE expands its service into the Pacific Northwest and the Midwest through the WFE and the Burlington Refrigerator Express Company (BREX), its other partly-owned subsidiary. FGE purchases 2,676 reefers from the Pennsylvania Railroad.
• 1928: The FGE forms the National Car Company as a subsidiary to service the meat transportation market; customers include Kahns, Oscar Mayer, and Rath.
• 1930: The number of refrigerator cars in the United States reaches its maximum of approximately 183,000 units.
• 1931: The SFRD reconfigures 7 reefers to utilize dry ice as a cooling agent.
• 1932: Japanese Government Railways builds vehicles specially made for dry ice coolant.
• 1936: The first all-steel reefers enter service.
• 1937: The Interstate Commerce Commission bans "billboard" type advertisements on railroad cars.
• 1946: Two experimental aluminum-body refrigerator cars enter service on the PFE; an experimental reefer with a stainless-steel body is built for the SFRD.
• 1950: The U.S. refrigerator car roster drops to 127,200.
• 1957: The last ice bunker refrigerator cars are built.
• 1958: The first mechanical reefers (utilizing diesel-powered refrigeration units) enter revenue service.
• 1960s: The flush, "plug" style sliding door is introduced as an option that provides a larger door to ease loading and unloading of certain commodities. The tight-fitting doors are better insulated and allow a car's interior to be maintained at a more even temperature.
• 1966: Japanese National Railways starts operation of fish freight express trains by newly built "resa 10000" type refers.
• 1969: ACF constructs a number of experimental center flow hopper cars which incorporate mechanical cooling systems and insulated cargo cells; the units are intended for shipment of bulk perishables.
• 1971: The last ice-cooled reefers are retired from service.
• 1980: The U.S. refrigerator car roster drops to 80,000.
• 1986: The last refers in Japan are replaced by refer containers.
• 1990s: The first cryogenically-cooled reefers enter service.
• 2001: The number of refrigerator cars in the United States "bottoms out" at approximately 8,000.
• 2005: The number of reefers in the United States climbs to approximately 25,000, the result of significant new refrigerator car orders.

 

[Mr. SP]

Your plug door box cars should be fine for a late 1950's time period.

[Tracklayer]

What year did 40' plug door box cars go into regular service?. I've got a couple in N scale that are dated for the late 50s and wanted to make sure they were right before I start using them with my late 50s trains.

Thanks in advance.

Tracklayer