Recently I made a train order board for a station on my layout. Originally I read that if the arm pointed down then there was no order for the incoming train and it was clear for the train to proceed. I also have come upon an article more recently that states that the all clear/no order signal was the arm of the order board straight up. Now I am confused. Which is right or can various railways use either?
Semaphores came in two flavors, upper quadrant and lower quadrant. For both, a horizontal arm meant STOP. Upper quadrant semaphores moved the arm upward, vertical for clear and 45 degrees for restrictive. (A train order station would use the restrictive position to indicate an order that had to be picked up 'on the fly,' while stop would be set for an order that had to be signed for.)
Lower quadrant semaphores moved downward to a 60 degree position to clear. The ones I am familiar with had only two positions, but if there was a third position it was probably 30 degrees.
Looking at the light lenses on your semaphore arms will tell you which you have. If the top lens is red, you have an upper quadrant arm. If the top lens is green, the arm is set up for lower quadrant.
Hope this helps
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
As mentioned there are both upper and lower quadrant train order semaphores. In either case, the most vertical position meant clear, no orders, and the horizontal position meant the train had to recieve a clearance before departing the station. On roads that used "Form 19" and "Form 31" orders, the semaphore blade at a 45 degree angle meant that they could pick up form 19 orders on the fly and the horizontal board meant that they had to stop and get form 31 orders (form 31 orders restrict the rights of the train and the crew has to sign the orders to acknowledge thay have recieved them). On roads that did not use form 31 orders a train could pass a stop train order board without stopping if the orders were hung in the delivery device or the operator was seen to be in positon to deliver them.
One other clarification is that on some railroads the train order board was kept at clear and set to stop only when orders were recieved for that direction while other roads kept the board at stop and only cleared it for trains that did not have orders for them. You would have to check the rules for your railroad to tell which your railroad did. If it was one of the ones that kept the train order board at clear, then a board at stop does NOT necessarily mean there are orders for the next train. All it means is that the dispatcher has issued an order for a train in the direction in which the board is set to stop. If the there are no orders for an individual train it would recieved a clearance that says "I have no orders for your train".
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
And now, the rest of the story...
My first post only covered the semaphore blade itself, Dave went over the practical meanings of the signal aspects and what actions they required. Now, some peculiarities of train order signal location.
The train order office, and its signals, were usually located somewhere near the center of a passing siding - on the mainline side of the right-of-way. Because of this location, a train that had to stop for a 31 order would not stop short of the signal. It would stop with the locomotive and caboose approximately equidistant from the office, so the engineer and the conductor would have to walk about equal distances to receive and sign for the orders - thus minimizing the length of time the train would be stopped if the 31 order cleared it for a hard meet at the next station. It would also mean that the train would be clear of both siding switches (turnouts, if you insist) so a train waiting on the siding could proceed as soon as the arriving train's caboose cleared the main.
A train receiving 19 orders or no orders would pass through the station on the main, and the agent wouldn't want to cross the siding to hoop up the orders - especially if there was another train parked on the siding! Thus the position of the office on the mainline side of the ROW.
These days, the locomotive always stops short of modern CTC-controlled and ABS signals set to stop, and radio delivers instructions and receives confirmation direct from the cab.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with lower-quadrant semaphores)
tomikawaTT wrote:The train order office, and its signals, were usually located somewhere near the center of a passing siding - on the mainline side of the right-of-way.
Not necessarily. They could be at the end of a siding, past the end of a siding, there might not be a siding, or they could be on the siding side of the tracks. Where ever the building was.
Because of this location, a train that had to stop for a 31 order would not stop short of the signal.
True because the trainorder signal is not a "stop" signal, it means that the train cannot depart the station without recieving a a clearance.
It would stop with the locomotive and caboose approximately equidistant from the office, so the engineer and the conductor would have to walk about equal distances to receive and sign for the orders
Only if the physical layout of the siding permitted it. If the station was at one end of the siding or the other the train would stop so either the caboose or the engine was close to the station.
A train receiving 19 orders or no orders would pass through the station on the main,
Not necessarily. If it had a meet against a superior train or was doing work, it might be in the siding.
and the agent wouldn't want to cross the siding to hoop up the orders - especially if there was another train parked on the siding! Thus the position of the office on the mainline side of the ROW.
Doesn't matter. If there is a train on the main, the operator would have to cross through the train to get to the train in the siding. Either way if the depot is in the middle of the siding the operator (the operator handles the orders, not the agent, although they could be the same person) will have to cross through whatever is on the track closest to the depot to get to the other track. Actually the best situation is not to have the depot at a siding, so the operator never has to cross a track.
tomikawaTT wrote: Semaphores came in two flavors, upper quadrant and lower quadrant. For both, a horizontal arm meant STOP.
Semaphores came in two flavors, upper quadrant and lower quadrant. For both, a horizontal arm meant STOP.
The Old Dog does NOT claim to be an expert on signaling, but it should be noted that semaphores came in many more forms. As a general rule, train order semaphore signals had rounded ends. They also often had a number plate with the leters "TO". The block semaphore signals had pointed ends, but their meaning often varied depending on the presence or absence of number plate and prehaps the vertical allignment of the sign heads. However, to confuse matters, train order signals were used for manual blocking on some lines. In addition, interlocking semaphore home signals had square ends, and interlocking distant signals had fish tail ends.
Have fun
tomikawaTT wrote: The train order office, and its signals, were usually located somewhere near the center of a passing siding - on the mainline side of the right-of-way.
The train order office, and its signals, were usually located somewhere near the center of a passing siding - on the mainline side of the right-of-way.
The Old Dog must question that statement. Note that the station agent had many duties in addition to delivering train orders. He was the local representative of the railroad company when dealing with the car load shippers and consignees. He had to hand the less then carload shipments. Then there was the express shipments. Don't forget the mail. Furthermore he was required to sell tickets to the passengers and handle their checked baggage.
The point is that most of those additional duties required a station near the center of towm, if possible.
Also note that "meets" will usually require at least one train the wait for some period. If the siding is located at the station in a downtown location, that is going to block the cross streets, which will not make the local citzens too happy. That is especially true in case of fire or other emergency. Plus, land prices and hence taxes are higher downtown.
Hence, sidings that are normally used for "meets" will tend to be in out laying locations.
tomikawaTT wrote: Because of this location, a train that had to stop for a 31 order would not stop short of the signal. It would stop with the locomotive and caboose approximately equidistant from the office, so the engineer and the conductor would have to walk about equal distances to receive and sign for the orders - thus minimizing the length of time the train would be stopped if the 31 order cleared it for a hard meet at the next station.
Because of this location, a train that had to stop for a 31 order would not stop short of the signal. It would stop with the locomotive and caboose approximately equidistant from the office, so the engineer and the conductor would have to walk about equal distances to receive and sign for the orders - thus minimizing the length of time the train would be stopped if the 31 order cleared it for a hard meet at the next station.
The Old Mutt must observe that trainmen don't like to walk. Railroads do NOT have sidewalks.
The Dog would suspect that it would be more likily for the engineer to stop at the platform, sign for his orders, then pull the train forward until the caboose was at the station platform so the conductor could sign for hais orders.