British Nuclear Control Train

[Tulyar15]

I know what you mean. When I first visited Cork in the early 1990's pretty well all the passenger trains were loco-hauled. There were also the ammonia trains which used to run from Cobh though I gather those have finished, as have the sugar beet trains to Mallow.

[corksean12]

I Didnt realise those signals were being changed.I'ts a shame, they are pretty cool.

to answer your question, i was near that line (just outside Kent station) a few weeks ago and i didnt notice a difference, but i might be wrong. I hope for your sake they are still there when you come over, because apart from the signals and occasional cement trains, Kent isnt much of a 'trainspotter friendly' station. I've kind of stopped going there since the new green trains replaced the orange and black ones.

[Tulyar15]

Interesting stuff.I couldnt help but think it was some sort of hoax myself.the caption (to me ) suggested it was some sort of British Cold War equivalent  to Air Force 1. Not sure I would be heading for a pair of Gresley coaches if that klaxon sounded... 

No hoax! These trains were for real

Perhaps you could answer a question for me - how advanced is the re-signalling work on the Cork - Cobh line? I ask because this is the last double track line in Ireland still signalled with manual signalling and absolute block. I would like another chance to photograph these before they are replaced with colour lights, which is why I am thinking about coming to Cork. 

 

[corksean12]

Interesting stuff.I couldnt help but think it was some sort of hoax myself.the caption (to me ) suggested it was some sort of British Cold War equivalent  to Air Force 1. Not sure I would be heading for a pair of Gresley coaches if that klaxon sounded... 

[Tulyar15]

Talltim is right about the Nuclear Control trains. They were intended as mobile HQ's in case of war or other emergency. There was one per region, the Western Region one was based at Craven Arms in Shropshire in an old loco shed. It was formed of ex-GWR Collett and Hawksworht coaches

I dont know where the others were based, but I seem to recall the Scottish Region set was formed of Gresley coaches. I believe the Southern one was formed of Hastings loading guage coaches, thru wired so they could be top'd and tailed by a pair of Hastings power cars.

[Anonymous]

Reply from a guy called Bryan

"These coaches were released for scrap / preservation in the 80s
I believe that they had been formed in sets of, I think, 6 coaches comprising Offices, messing, generator and stores. I understand that to be the case anyway.
A number of these coaches found their way into preservation but all were heavily stripped of furnishings etc and needed a lot of work.
I think that each region had at least 1 set maybe more.
Cannot remember were they had been stored though.
LNERCA  and other similar coach groups could possibly supply more info."

I suspect that rather than controlling anything to do with nuclear devices, they were mobile railway operating control centres, to allow the railways to continue running in the event that the static control centres were out of action.

Also, although I haven't checked for references to nuclear control trains, this site has interesting cold war info http://www.subbrit.org.uk/rsg/index.shtml. Check out http://www.subbrit.org.uk/rsg/features/sfs/

 

[Dave-the-Train]

Hadn't even heard of the railway!

So I did a search...

http://www.embsayboltonabbeyrailway.org.uk/

was just the first result.

As for the "British Nuclear Control Train" it sounds like a wind-up to me (like a "left handed spatula" or a "long weight/wait").  BUT "British Nuclear..." suggests British Nuclear Fuels Limited and it might have been something of theirs.

If it was supposed to be taken to the site of any incident... a power plant or nuclear (rail) flask incident... it was probably superceded by road vehicles and/or local provision quite early on (1960 at least).  Getting a pathway for it from wherever it may have been stored (even in emergency) would have been "interesting".  It may have been the (at least cosmetic) solution to concerns in the early nuclear years.

Loco?  Possibly a pair of Class 20s.  These stayed in use with flask traffic long after  would have expected them to be scrapped.  They were largely replaced with Class 37s (one nearly ran over my toes last year).  I was told that the reason for the longevity of these locos in this service was their light weight and the rail weight of some of the lines they worked on.  (One would have thought that the lines would have been upgraded but it may have been a bridge issue as well... most power plants are in remote places that never had indigenous heavy rail traffic).  In steam days a light footprint would probably have meant use of either the smaller Standard Class tanks or tender locos... possibly Mixed Traffic.  The carriages would probably have remained steam heated... at a guess.

It is possible that the stock ran as buffer cars and accomodation for security staff at some stage.  Few people are aware that Flasks have run with armed guards who are instructed to shoot first if they perceive a threat.  A colleague met one of these gentlemen... or at least the wrong end of his weapon.  I asked him what weapon it was... he hadn't bothered to find out... but just "gone away" as instructed.

If they were some sort of "control" car they probably had their original guts ripped out and some sort of office, and possibly other facilities built in.  Maybe there are pics somewhere???

For reasons not known to me the Gresley coaches were pretty popular for cascading to all sorts of weird duties... usually Pway or signals related.  I imagine that their teak bodies lasted extremely well.  Maybe their wood frames were also much easier to adapt when extra or fewer doors were wanted.

Unusually both carriages appear to have started life as saloons.  It was more usual for full brakes or at least carriages with a guards compartment to get recycled/converted to other uses... although the caption does say that they were only part of the train.

I don't know but it seems to me that the BNFL usage seems more likely.  Anything to do with Nuclear war control centres always involved large holes in the gbround and tons of concrete.  Not mch of a few wood bodied coaches would have survived if there had been a nuclear war.

The Nuclear bunkers are now frequently tourist attractions... signposted with big signs saying "SECRET NUCLEAR BUNKER ->".  The first sign I saw was about 10' tall and almost caused me to crash as I was laughing so hard.  I went to take a look... man! Was that place spookey and scarey!  The whole idea was totally nuts.

I know this much... if I'd survived and some politician came out of his bunker to "run the country" I wouldn't have said "Oh good!  you got us here now you're going to tell us how to live..."

[Anonymous]

Couldn't find anything either, but I've asked on http://www.lner.info/forums as they are Gresley coaches.

I'll report back if anyone knows

Tim

[corksean12]

I was just browsing around on the net the other day when i came across this page:

http://philtpics.fotopic.net/p3361759.html

It Shows 2 gresley coaches painted black and the caption says these were part of a nuclear control Train up until the late 1970's. I know this is mainly an American Forum, But does Anyone have more info on this train i.e. Where it ran, what type of loco pulled it etc. because i cannot find any more info on it. It looks like it would be easy to repaint some coaches like this, and especially if there were only 2 coaches it would fit nicely on my small shelf layout.

thanks;

            Sean