road switcher running direction

[Anonymous]

Initially, road switchers were run long hood forward. When did they start running short hood forward? I know they ran long hood forward in the early 50's, and by the mid 60's they were running the other way 'round. I am modelling a free lance Canadian road circa 1958, and am at a loss as to which way is appropriate. Would this be a transition time and have some of each?[?]

[Anonymous]

Some roads still run them short hood first still like Norfolk Southern. I personally turn them around because i like then better short hood first.

[BR60103]

It's a matter of whether safety in a collision or being able to see the front of the loco is more important.
You can sometimes tell which is the front by the paint scheme -- CPR's maroon and grey has a definite front, even on hood units.
I think some of the early diesels had long hood front until they got a chopped nose. Around Toronto, CN runs pairs of chopped nose geeps in local freights with no regard to long or short nose leading -- I've even seen them coupled short noses together.
I have an idea, but can't document it, that some RRs ran short nose forward from the beginning.

[coalminer3]

You can also tell what "front" was on some other road's units because they had a letter "F" painted on them (generally near the steps on early geeps). Pictures from the time period you are working with will give you an idea as to general practices. NYC, for example, typically ran long hood first (as did their subsidiaries). C&O was usaully short hood, etc. Many other roads ran with no regard to long nose or short nose as BR60103 suggested.

work safe

[Wdlgln005]

I'd go get a color guide to the railroad that you have in mind. At least you could see which end is supposed to be the front. Look where lights & bells or horns are placed on the unit.
For a road switcher, it would be necessary to be able to run in either direction. All that back & forth stuff running from here to there & back without turning the loco. Some lines, like CN were late or slow to convert from steam. Some branch lines may be built too light or have a bridge with a low weight limit.
Heavy SD's and modern cars could still be banned there or restricted to 10mph speeds.

[Anonymous]

Hmm.

If your HO engines drive away instead of running together, you may want to verify that the wiring is correct. Most engines eat power from the right side facing forward.

Good Luck

Lee

[Anonymous]

There are various reasons for railrodas choosing either long- or short-hood forward. I know the Erie Lackawanna, downstate, and highly populated areas with numerous grade crossings, sometime in the 60s, early seventies decide they would run their Geeps with the long-hood forward. I believe this was only in a few divisions. There decision to do this was to give the engineer and fireman more protection during grade crossing incidents.

However, some railroads just did it because that was the way the were facing at the time.

There are probably other reasons behind the RR's choosing direction.

Colin

[Allen Jenkins]

I saw a pair of Great Northern SD9's coupled high-short-hooded to gether a couple of months ago, so you have to do research on any particular road, even to the particular unit. Sit down now. Usually you will find an F located on the frame side sill at the end next to the handrail on the front. The maintence crews to that particular road were oriented to the tasks the were to perform by that F. However Norfolk and Western engines sometimes don't show me this. This could be because some of their fleets were dual controller equipped, or the road grime covered the F. One shop item is to drain waste water from the toilet and the employees wrer oriented to that mark. The Southern Railway System used several configurations. Bi-directional single controller equip. ment a control stand that was positioned so that the engineers seat could be turned around 180 degrees, slid back all the way and the operator could have the throttle, reverser, and air guages to the right of his position. Single directional single controller eq. engines, inc. NS GP60's, would put the worset hurting on you if tried to do this for twelve hours. Union rules were in effect to enforce long hood forward as practice, and fleets were built to these standards, however the Southern never had a GP7, GP9, GP35, SD7,SD9,SD24 SD35,GP30 ment to be or marked F, as long hood forward[Sou.Rwy. mech. dept. Form 1014]. They wre set up bi-dir. short hood forward. Any engine The Southern Railway System ran, and Norfolk Southern runs is subject to be run as needed, when need, because the union rules have been relaxed. Reading had SD45's with dual contollers and extended cabs. There is an article in the Oct. MR on converting a GP38 to dual controller equipment. these cabs usually had five seats, depending on the road. I modeled {CSX} fallen flag roads for twenty years, then modeled a pair of Southern geeps. I was amazed at the difference the long hood forward appearance made! A GP50-GP38-2["The Double Nickle"-5500HP]. the only hangup is when you do this you can't decide which to go for a good look or looking good. And what about the SD60 that has all that frame out front, going up 4.7% grade, through Saluda, NC, then watching that frame begin to go down a 5% grade down the mountain? God, I Love This Country! Enjoy Your Hobby! Allen'03

[Anonymous]

I am suprized no one picked up on which side the engineer is sitting! foward on a loco with one set of controls, puts the engineer on the right side. to change which end is the "front", the controls would have to move to the other side of the cab!

[DSchmitt]

Some of the RR's locos were bi-directional with two sets of controls so that the engineer would always be on the proper side of the cab. The Southern Paific's passenger (commuter) road switchers were equiped this way. They hand stripes on both noses. The freight units had stripes only on the front.

[DSchmitt]

The SP freight units were not bi-directional. The SP Passenger locos were often used on freights, usually on the weekend,

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the input, people, but no one has really answered my original query. I'm looking for a date, here, as it relates to Canadian practice. I haven't located any photos from the exact period, so looking for "F" markings, paint details and engineers really isn't helping me here - at least not until I find the photos.

[jrbernier]

Road switcher or 'hood' units can be setup for either short or long hood first. Early Alco products were generally built with the 'long' hood as front. There are exceptions(Milw RS3's were delivered setup for 'short' hood in front). Most EMD units like the GP7 or GP/9 were delivered with the 'short' hood as the front if the customer did not specify something else. GN, SP&S, and Erie units were delivered with the controls setup for 'long' hood in front. In Canada, CN seemed to like 'long' hood first operation, and CP bought their GP's set up for 'short' hood first operation. Some roads like the N&W specified 'dual controls' and it really made no difference which end was leading as the engineer was always facing the direction of travel. In actual practice it was very easy to swivel the engineers seat and face the other direction, so it really did not make a lot of difference

Jim Bernier

[Anonymous]

I lived by the GTW tracks in E. Lansing, for four years in the late 60's, and every lead road switcher I saw was running long hood forward.

[eastcoast]

If you are freelancing your road, it IS your choice.
Personally, I would run long nose first ,as most steam era engineers
were probably used to staring at the long hood anyway. But ,when it
comes to safety , short hood is best.

[DSchmitt]

Visibility around the short hood is better, but the hood was relitively weak sheet metal with little bracing. Many engineers liked the long hood in front because it provided more protection in a grade crossing accident. The wide cabs (based on a design developed in Canada) on modern locos are much stronger.

[CP5170]

According to Rail Canada Vol 3, diesel paint schemes of the CPR, there is no standard answer to your question. Since you are modelling 1958, the paint scheme is maroon and grey with block lettering. According to the above book, a ALCO RS-2 1600hp B-B ran long hood forward yet a GMD GP7 1500hp B-B ran short hood forward.

[Anonymous]

I also model a Canadian Freelance RR...a little later then the late 50s but still the same difference...about the only thing i can say is this...if its freelance..its YOUR rr...run them however you want to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dehusman]

Well actuallly it should help to look for the "F" because the change was probbaly made when they changed orders for locomotives. So if you look at locomotives and the GP7's were long nose front and the GP9's were short nose front, and you can see when the GP9's were bought that will give you your time. It also wasn't a specific date. There was probably a decade or two when they ran both ways.
If an engine was set up to run long hood first , you would have to completely rebuild the entire cab, floor, control stand, all the piping and wiring underneath to change it to short hood front. The locomotives could be ordered either direction front. It can vary from area to area too. If one class of engine is assigned to a particular area and its set up short nose front then that area will have a different "date' than an area where long nose front engines are assigned.

Get a roster of your railroad. Look at pictures of your engines. Figure out which end is front. Figure out what date the picture was taken. Figure out what type of engine it is and when it was bought.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

I was breaking for the CNR
from 1956-58, and have a photo of two Alco locos, #3634 and #3006 coupled together at the short end. They're running extra, displaying a white flag.

[ndbprr]

As a rule of thumb in the US I would say the change occurred roughly from the GP-18 and later. I think it was the ASTF shops that lowered the first short hood for visibility during a rebuild. It was definitely a western road. That was one of the major factors in the change to short hood first. So as a rule of thumb any thing later than a GP-18 would probably be short hood first. i would suggest you get a copy of the Diesel Spotters Guide from Kalmbach which should asner your question for any railroad that bought the engine as there are some oddballs out there like N&W engines that were pretty much long hood forward until the NS merger.

[Anonymous]

It depends on the loco. Most roads started to favour short-nose forward in the 60's and many updated their older loco's to run that way when they got rebuilt or overhauled.

The only somewhat firm rule is that low-nosed loco's are usuall short-hood first.

CN for one never updated all their loco's IIRC they still have some GP9's that are set up for long-hood first operation, even though they have chopped noses (the 70xx series)

[Anonymous]

On the Union Pacific the first order of GP-7s were equiped to run long hood forward, subsequent orders of GP-7s and GP-9s were set up for short hood forward. We're going back to the early 50s here LONG before GP-18s. It very much depends on the railroad. As has been said above it's your railroad. Do what looks good to you.

Ed