Why do they call them "Engineers?"

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by steveiow

Drivers in the UK but our union is the Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen-stange?

Yes... ASLEF is very strange [:)]... but the National Union of Railwaymen became RMT (Rail, Marine [&] Transport)...[Should that be Maritime?]. Don't ever go near TESSA!!!

[SolitaryJedi]

Point of view from Southern Ontario, Canada:

Although I have no 'official' experience with railroading, a cousin used to work on the railroad as an Engineer (on diesel's) and I grew up only thinking of him and others as such. Never heard the term 'driver' when referring to people commanding trains.

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mark300

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock

On electric interurban railroads (carrying long-distance passengers) the operator was also commonly known as a motorman, and some electric freight lines used the term "motorman" to refer to the operator of a freight motor. Perhaps on lines that used steam and electric, or later diesel and electric, the term "engineer" was carried over.

The term 'locomotive Engineer' dates from before the American Civil War and certainly pre-dates any electric interurban railroad.

Since most roads used steam and later Diesel Electric in overwhelming numbers over 'electric motors,' the term 'Locomotive Engineer' prevails.

Mark

well, yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying--on railroads which started out as steam railroads, the term "engineer" came into use, and carried over to their electric and diesel-electric descendants, while on railroads built as electrics from their initial construction, "motorman" was commonly used until much later, typically when the freight motors were replaced by diesels.

[jfallon]

I have to wonder why they started calling the other engineers (who don't operate locomotives or any other engines) by that term. It does seem to have been corrupted, much the same way that "technician" has. The general usage of the terms is that the "technician" has no formal training but knows how to do the job, while the "engineer" has the education but not the know-how.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by smattei

in french: mécanicien : that is something like 'the one that works with an engine...'

in german. Lokomotivführer (yes Führer like in Hitler...): that means 'leader of the engine'.

in italian: macchinista (the one that works with an engine, it can also bee the engine of a ship).

Sebastiano

Well it looks like only the US and Canada have a problem. In Australia and most of the English speaking world they are drivers. Here in Indonesia they are known as "masinis", which very possibly means Dutch use a similar term as Sebastiano explained for French and Italian in his post.

For the people who are troubled by the use of "engineer" what about army engineers? The ones who build bridges or demoli***hings, not the mechanical and electrical wallahs. Bet there would not be too many degrees in an engineer battalion.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by David_Telesha

Simply because you do NOT "drive" a train.

I believe they do call them drivers in some places overseas, but we don't use that name here.

One of the several meanings of the word Engineer is:: one who run an engine or an apparatus

Sorry !

[tomikawaTT]

Bangert1

If I were to take your shout literally, I could call myself a "Motor Vehicle Engineer." After all, I do have a license!

Back about half a century ago, there was a great to-do about the relative number of engineers being licensed in the (former) Soviet Union versus the same statistic for the United States. Then someone noticed that a significant number were "sanitary engineers." A quick check of the training and qualifications involved proved that they would have been called "plumbers" in the English-speaking world.

Another point to ponder - the US Navy rating who has hands-on control of the ship's main engines (and is expected to perform at-sea repairs on same) is called a Machinist's Mate. (Does that make the EOW a machinist?) Navy-ese for the rating who civilians would call a machinist is 'metalsmith.'

Most of the credentialed engineers in the Corps of Engineers are DOD civilians. The grunts who do the work are not called engineers, any more than the file clerks in the university school of (fill in the blank) engineering are called engineers.

Fun, isn't it

Chuck

[Anonymous]

In accident investigation reports from 1911 through the 1960's, the ICC insisted on using the neologism "engineman" instead of "engineer", although the latter term was otherwise in universal use. The commission reserved the title of engineer for its professional 'experts' and consultants with academic credentials. In a subsequent reversal of policy, investigation reports embraced "engineer" in place of "engineman" for operators of locomotives in order to accommodate feminist sensitivities. At the same time and for the same reason, reports began to refer to motormen as "operators", a title historically reserved for those who copied and passed up train orders.

[wjstix]

Of course "driver" is just a left-over term from the days of driving animals, it predates machinery like trains, cars, etc.

[rayw46]

I've seen this thread for about two weeks now, but haven't opened it. I did so today to see if anyone has given the obvious answer; because they're near the engine. Hey, it's raining where I am and I'm feeling a little goofty.

[vsmith]

Macchinista! Macchinnn ---ista!

That has a nice sound to it!

Lokomotivführer? not sure about that one, Hmmm, sounds like a Sienfeld episode...

"No trains for YOU!"

[Anonymous]

Some more information about the use of Engineer on USA Railroads::
Much like any othe names we have used or changed over the years, the work engineer goes back to the time of the early 1800's when the term was given to show the authority and responiblity of the man in charge. Just because we use the name differently today does not change the way it was used in the past. We are now using terms and names that were not even thought of thirty years ago.


A Locomotive Engineer or train driver is a person who operates a railroad locomotive and train. The Engineer is the person in charge of and responsible for the locomotive(s) of a railroad train. They are also in charge of the mechanical operation of the train and all train handling. They share with the Conductor, whom is in charge of the train, responsibility for the safe operation of the train and application of the railway companys' rules and procedures. The Engineer controls the speed of the train and the handling of the cars and equipment. On many railroads, the career progression is one that starts as an Asst. Conductor (Brakeman), Conductor and finally, Engineer. In the United States the Engineer is required by the federal government to be certified, & re-certified every 2-3 years. A Locomotive Engineer who wishes to become an Engineers' supervisor would progress to the position of Road Foreman of Engines.

[edit]
Duties
Responsible for preparing equipment for service, checking paperwork & vital seals, controlling acceleration, braking & handling of the train underway, following direction of the Conductor. Has memorized physical characteristics of the railroad, including passenger stations and all speeds. Along with the conductor, the engineer monitors time to not fall behind schedule, nor leave stations early. Often requires running at reduced speed when following other trains, approaching route diversions, or regulating time over road to avoid arriving too early, when builtin "recovery time" in schedule is not needed. Assumes duties of conductor if incapacitated or removed.

[rkbufkin]

What does AMTRAK call them. Are they engineers or motormen running the Acelas>

[james saunders]

Pacific National calls them Locomotive operators