Hi All,
Were Penn Central RS11's set up for long or short hood forward or were there two control stands? I have received a photo of a pair nose to nose at a depot apparently coupled to run that way but I would like to have confirmation that they were set up for one or the other<
Thanks in Anticipation
Regards from Australia
Trevor
The ex-PRR RS11s were set up to run long-hood-forward and this persisted into PC use. (For reference, American power almost always has a small 'F' marking which end is set up to be the default 'front' end.)
Bet Ed has control-stand pictures -- or can get them.
It would make sense to MU them short end-to-short end in this case, for the same reason 'cabs-out' is convenient on 2-unit wide cab power consists -- with the added advantage that the walk to 'change cabs' is short.
Same would go for former New York Central units, long hood forward was the norm until they started getting engines with a low short hood...I think the GP-20s were the first?
As Overmod points out, US electric and diesel engines are required to have an "F" designating the front. It's often pretty small. On switchers and road switchers (GPs, SDs, RSs etc.) it's usually on the frame near the front stairwell.
Yes, the EMD GP20 was the first diesel designed to have a low hood.
The old New Haven also had RS-11's. It's been a long time, but I think they were set up to run short hood forward...
OldEnginemanThe old New Haven also had RS-11's. It's been a long time, but I think they were set up to run short hood forward...
This was carried over into PC, as this shot of 7669 indicates:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7f/7f/fa/7f7ffa4b8ffaff0db1a0354ba22c8011.jpg
SP had an order of very late GP9's with low hoods. Original slide- SP GP9 #3883 Low Nose -- Antique Price Guide Details Page (antiquesnavigator.com)
You can also see by the way the Hancock Air Whistle is pointing
Thank you all... there will be an article in Railway Modeller Australia with a section on the RS11's... your feedbacks will be included!
One should remember that while the "F" designation is required for various reasons, having the lead engine of a train facing front isn't one of them. They can run just as well with the engine facing "backwards" according to the designated front end. It's just a bit more inconvenient if it doesn't have dual controls, or in current times, ditch lights on the back end.
Still, there are pictures out there of road trains, not just local freights, being led by a locomotive running backwards.
Jeff
jeffhergertOne should remember that while the "F" designation is required for various reasons, having the lead engine of a train facing front isn't one of them.
Also required because the gov't says so:
=================
(a) The letter “F” shall be legibly shown on each side of every locomotive near the end which for identification purposes will be known as the front end.
(b) The locomotive number shall be displayed in clearly legible numbers on each side of each locomotive.
=========
But it does let you identify axles, traction motors, wheels as well. Same thought with freight cars having A and B ends.
zug (who has logged as many miles running engines backwards in a month as some guys may do in their lifetimes)
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
For those who can do Facepalm, here's a video of how to run an RS11 short-hood-forward when it's set up to run long-hood-forward:
https://www.facebook.com/RailfanDepot/videos/442408844874367/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v
Unfortunately, my two Rapido RS-11s in NYC have the control stand on the wrong side. All that effort for lighted gauges on the control stand but on the wrong side for long nose forward.
NYC 8000 Rapido by Edmund, on Flickr
Cheers, Ed
gmpullman Unfortunately, my two Rapido RS-11s in NYC have the control stand on the wrong side. All that effort for lighted gauges on the control stand but on the wrong side for long nose forward. NYC 8000 Rapido by Edmund, on Flickr Cheers, Ed
Did someone not do their homework?
If you contact Rapido about it (as I would encourage you to do), I suspect their answer will be something like "it was only possible for us to add the lighted control panel on the short-hood end of the engine, because of the wiring necessary and where the motor is. We decided to leave it in the short-hood end on all models. So, the feature is there if you want to use it, or you can not press the function button that lights it up, and leave it dark."
Sheesh (to quote da Bear) -- I'm not in the business, and I can think of a couple of ways to make that control stand 'modular' (for the necessary cheap price). All that fancy lighting can't involve more than one DC pair...
I'm surprised Ed didn't just go ahead and do this on his units... be interesting to see how he'd do it.
OvermodI'm surprised Ed didn't just go ahead and do this on his units... be interesting to see how he'd do it.
Might be a good project down the road. At the time I hadn't given it any thought.
Rapido RS11 Speaker cab by Edmund, on Flickr
Looks like the engineer doesn't even have a throttle or reverse lever to play with!
Actually, it looks like flipping the floor might be a relatively simple task.
Rapido RS11 cab floor by Edmund, on Flickr
One pair of wires are for the 'ground lights' and the other pair for the gauge lights:
Rapido RS11 Inside Shell by Edmund, on Flickr
I believe that all PC locomotives ran both ways. If they didn't, how would they get back after they got where they're going?
Not what he's talking about -- see some of the earlier posts in this thread about the implications of 'front'.
All these diesel-electrics run with equal facility in forward and reverse, and in fact the MU in the Alcos is set up to determine this automatically when the unit is not leading. The issue here is how the control stands and engineer's seat are set up.
Some locomotives were set up with 'dual controls' -- each side of the cab had controls and instruments,so the engine could be easily driven with either hood forward. (See the thread we had on this:
https://cs.trains.com/trn/f/741/t/96933.aspx ).
This cost a great deal extra on top of what was already a relatively high cost, so most railroads bought them with only one set of control gear. This would be on the 'engineer's side' only when the end of the locomotive marked 'F' was leading... hence the original question about how the RS11s were set up on PC (it was the same way as on the precursor railroads, long hood first on PRR and NYC; short hood first on New Haven).
You could run the locomotive 'backward' if you didn't mind sitting backward on the fireman's side -- I provided a video of someone doing just that. They did not look exactly comfortable to me.
OvermodNot what he's talking about -- see some of the earlier posts in this thread about the implications of 'front'.
Yes, I know that. Another small attempt at humor falls upon the old, cranky, and humorless. Good thing I'm retired so that I don't need to be concerned about quitting my day job.
Not to toss the proverbial monkey wrench on the subject. My very short existence with the PC as an apprentice oiler. There were a few RS units still on the rails that needed fuel and water. Very few were still running long hood front. Either they were converted or come to the road with the short hood leading. I don't recall seeing dual control ALCOs. EMD. Yes. In 76 there were quite a few cab units running through also. To try to save money. They grouped as many like units in areas where they didn't stray far from the servicing areas to consolidate parts and supplies.
Within a month of my layoff. P C was gone. Kinsman's fuel stand was ripped out and the yard was cut up to a skeleton of it's former self.
Pete.