gmpullman John-NYBW The problem is I have been unable to locate a Rapido RDC-1 to pair with the RDC-3. Before receiving this RDC-3, I had ordered a P1K RDC-1, not realizing this would be an issue. That hasn't arrived yet. The Proto 1000 RDC has a top speed of about 45 SMPH. You're going to have to really reduce the top speed of the Rapido model if you plan to MU the two. I really don't recall what the default CV3 - 4 settings were on the RDCs. It has been a while since I've had them on the Lokprogrammer. Generally I give all my new locos a thorough trial on the test track and make necessary adjustments to the functions as needed. I agree the WOWsound concept is not for everyone and, IMHO they should let the user decide to add momentum to their liking. TCS offers a "mainline mode" or "switching mode" which also effectively turns off momentum but I ignore this and customize the decoder to my liking. I prefer to keep some degree of deceleration momentum depending on the actual gearing and purpose of the engine. Regards, Ed
John-NYBW The problem is I have been unable to locate a Rapido RDC-1 to pair with the RDC-3. Before receiving this RDC-3, I had ordered a P1K RDC-1, not realizing this would be an issue. That hasn't arrived yet.
The Proto 1000 RDC has a top speed of about 45 SMPH. You're going to have to really reduce the top speed of the Rapido model if you plan to MU the two.
I really don't recall what the default CV3 - 4 settings were on the RDCs. It has been a while since I've had them on the Lokprogrammer. Generally I give all my new locos a thorough trial on the test track and make necessary adjustments to the functions as needed.
I agree the WOWsound concept is not for everyone and, IMHO they should let the user decide to add momentum to their liking. TCS offers a "mainline mode" or "switching mode" which also effectively turns off momentum but I ignore this and customize the decoder to my liking.
I prefer to keep some degree of deceleration momentum depending on the actual gearing and purpose of the engine.
Regards, Ed
Ed, I have a question about the slow speed of the Proto1000 RDC. Was that DCC equiped? Any idea why so slow?
Or was that after adding a decoder to a DC model? I don't even remember how they were offered?
I knew a few guys who had them, but I never ran them.
I just remember inconsistant paint finishes that turned a lot of guys off.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALEd, I have a question about the slow speed of the Proto1000 RDC. Was that DCC equiped? Any idea why so slow?
Both before and after a decoder was installed Sheldon. Slow as mud. I'm not sure if it is still offered but NWSL had engineered replacement gearing that was supposed to get the speed up to par, maybe not as high as 80 but better than the Life-Like gearing.
https://nwsl.com/products/double-compound-gears-26-teeth-19-teeth-lifelike-rdc-increases-speed-from-45-mph-to-72-mph
I looked them up and I believe they are still available. I had four of the old Protos and gave them away after the Rapido models came along rather than invest an additional $50/ea. to speed up the SpeedLiners.
I agree, too, about the paint. It was more like a silver sparkle finish. For a stainless representation nothing beats the Walthers plated finish.
Cheers, Ed
Thanks Ed, glad I never invested in any of those.
A while back, I picked up a dirt cheap P1K RDC-3 on ebay. Only problem is it is lettered for the Boston and Maine and I can't plausibly run that on my layout. I'm going to check to see if the P1K and Rapido RDC-3 shells are interchangeable in which case I would have two P1K RDCs lettered for the New York Central. Since the Rapido came with factory DCC/Sound, I could use that decoder in one of the P1Ks and would then only need to get one non-sound decoder for the other P1K. All this of course depends on the shells being interchangeable.
John-NYBWIf an unpowered car is towed behind it, the warranty is voided. If I'm reading the warranty correctly, I can't even couple it with a powered RDC from another manufacturer. It can only be coupled with other Rapido RDCs. It further states that the RDC is equipped with a detector that can determine if another car is towed by the RDC.
I suspect this is Rapido humour and not actual fact. They throw some bizarre stuff in their manuals sometimes.
In reality I think it can't be that fragile... What if the RDC derails or gets stuck on something, such that its at a dead stop with wheels spinning? Or what if you have two coupled Rapido RDCs and one suddenly loses power and becomes a dead weight? They can't possibly have produced a model that would break a drivetrain over stuff like this.
More plausible is that the drivetrain is strong enough to force wheelslip at factory weight without breaking. If that's the case, coupling an unpowered trailer would be no problem. Adding a pound of weight so that it can pull a whole train is a different story.
When I read that statement in the manual, I wondered whether the very steep grades on my layout would damage the RDC. I emailed Rapido and they said steep grades are fine and could not damage the drivetrain. So if it can apply enough torque to go up a nearly wheelslip-inducing hill, could it not also apply enough torque to tow something?
I would be happy to test mine running for an hour hauling a trailer for you, but it can't do the full loop of my layout yet until I get around to fixing a clearance issue with a tight corner into a bridge... it's longer than any car I originally designed the layout for.
speedybee John-NYBW If an unpowered car is towed behind it, the warranty is voided. If I'm reading the warranty correctly, I can't even couple it with a powered RDC from another manufacturer. It can only be coupled with other Rapido RDCs. It further states that the RDC is equipped with a detector that can determine if another car is towed by the RDC. I suspect this is Rapido humour and not actual fact. They throw some bizarre stuff in their manuals sometimes.
John-NYBW If an unpowered car is towed behind it, the warranty is voided. If I'm reading the warranty correctly, I can't even couple it with a powered RDC from another manufacturer. It can only be coupled with other Rapido RDCs. It further states that the RDC is equipped with a detector that can determine if another car is towed by the RDC.
It that is the case, I find that inexcusable. How is the user supposed to know this is tongue in cheek. Or maybe this is their way of encouraging the user to only buy their RDCs.
On the other hand, it does seem strange that they would put a car this fragile on the market.
Your example of two powered Rapido RDCs is a good one. Just hitting a dirty spot on the track might cause a brief stall and if their drive trains are as fragile as their manual suggests, that would be enough to cause it to break.
Whatever the actual case is, it is enough of a reason for me to never buy another Rapido product.
John-NYBW gmpullman John-NYBW The problem is I have been unable to locate a Rapido RDC-1 to pair with the RDC-3. Before receiving this RDC-3, I had ordered a P1K RDC-1, not realizing this would be an issue. That hasn't arrived yet. The Proto 1000 RDC has a top speed of about 45 SMPH. You're going to have to really reduce the top speed of the Rapido model if you plan to MU the two. I really don't recall what the default CV3 - 4 settings were on the RDCs. It has been a while since I've had them on the Lokprogrammer. Generally I give all my new locos a thorough trial on the test track and make necessary adjustments to the functions as needed. I agree the WOWsound concept is not for everyone and, IMHO they should let the user decide to add momentum to their liking. TCS offers a "mainline mode" or "switching mode" which also effectively turns off momentum but I ignore this and customize the decoder to my liking. I prefer to keep some degree of deceleration momentum depending on the actual gearing and purpose of the engine. Regards, Ed A while back, I picked up a dirt cheap P1K RDC-3 on ebay. Only problem is it is lettered for the Boston and Maine and I can't plausibly run that on my layout. I'm going to check to see if the P1K and Rapido RDC-3 shells are interchangeable in which case I would have two P1K RDCs lettered for the New York Central. Since the Rapido came with factory DCC/Sound, I could use that decoder in one of the P1Ks and would then only need to get one non-sound decoder for the other P1K. All this of course depends on the shells being interchangeable.
There is no logical reason why the shells would be interchangeable?
For one, just based on the dramatic difference in detail level between the two models, not to mention that one was made 18 years ago? By a different company?
John-NYBW speedybee John-NYBW If an unpowered car is towed behind it, the warranty is voided. If I'm reading the warranty correctly, I can't even couple it with a powered RDC from another manufacturer. It can only be coupled with other Rapido RDCs. It further states that the RDC is equipped with a detector that can determine if another car is towed by the RDC. I suspect this is Rapido humour and not actual fact. They throw some bizarre stuff in their manuals sometimes. It that is the case, I find that inexcusable. How is the user supposed to know this is tongue in cheek. Or maybe this is their way of encouraging the user to only buy their RDCs. On the other hand, it does seem strange that they would put a car this fragile on the market. Your example of two powered Rapido RDCs is a good one. Just hitting a dirty spot on the track might cause a brief stall and if their drive trains are as fragile as their manual suggests, that would be enough to cause it to break. Whatever the actual case is, it is enough of a reason for me to never buy another Rapido product.
Now that it is brought up, Jason is by all accounts the kind of person who do something like that, making fun of the original Budd warranty issues.
I know everybody who follows youtube, etc, likes Jason, but I have to lean toward your view John.
Not everybody is a social media follower or will "get" the inside joke.
John-NYBWWhatever the actual case is, it is enough of a reason for me to never buy another Rapido product.
I haven't had reason, yet, to open mine up but I will someday to put some peeps inside.
This site has a good photo reference to what's inside the Rapido models.
https://www.alfray.com/trains/ho_rapido_rdc.html
There's a photo showing the motors and drive shafts (also refered to as dogbones by some modelers).
I have had some Broadway and Proto drive shafts wear down and spin in the flywheels. These are ones where the hex ends got rounded off just enough to allow one to spin inside the hex socket in the flywheel.
I took the warning from Rapido seriously. I was following along when these were being developed and because the motor was being concealed below the floor some compromises had to be made. I simply run mine as a pair and have never had any issues with them.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL John-NYBW speedybee John-NYBW If an unpowered car is towed behind it, the warranty is voided. If I'm reading the warranty correctly, I can't even couple it with a powered RDC from another manufacturer. It can only be coupled with other Rapido RDCs. It further states that the RDC is equipped with a detector that can determine if another car is towed by the RDC. I suspect this is Rapido humour and not actual fact. They throw some bizarre stuff in their manuals sometimes. It that is the case, I find that inexcusable. How is the user supposed to know this is tongue in cheek. Or maybe this is their way of encouraging the user to only buy their RDCs. On the other hand, it does seem strange that they would put a car this fragile on the market. Your example of two powered Rapido RDCs is a good one. Just hitting a dirty spot on the track might cause a brief stall and if their drive trains are as fragile as their manual suggests, that would be enough to cause it to break. Whatever the actual case is, it is enough of a reason for me to never buy another Rapido product. Now that it is brought up, Jason is by all accounts the kind of person who do something like that, making fun of the original Budd warranty issues. I know everybody who follows youtube, etc, likes Jason, but I have to lean toward your view John. Not everybody is a social media follower or will "get" the inside joke. Sheldon
The warning was posted at the front of the manual. The warning had the following header:
"This is so important it even gets put in before the Table of Contents. Please read it carefully."
If that isn't telling the user to take it seriously I don't know what would be. If it is a joke, it's disgraceful. If it is for real, it means the product is junk. Either way, this is my first and last Rapido purchase.
Part of the speed issues with the LifeLike proto 1000 RDCs is there is a diode bridge arrangement for constant lighting with 2 additional diodes for directional lighting. The voltage drop across the bridge, which is wired in series with the motor is about 1 and 1/2 volts. This voltage then feeds light bulbs which I believe are likely 3 volt bulbs. you can remove the diode bridge , the other diodes for directional control and 3 volt bulbs. You can wire LEDs for new directional lighting.. Eliminating the diode bridge will allow another 1 and 1/2 volts to go to the motor. You should get about 10 or 15 MPH speed increase.
If this increase is not enough I think Northwest Shortline did offer a regear kit for the RDC which should help..
This diode bridge was very common back in the 1970s and 1980s ,it provided costant lighting . With 2 additional diodes and 3 volt bulbs you had directional control of diesel headlights.
Ron High
I do not know if this lighting arrangement with the newer Walthers reissue of the LL proto RDC is wired this way.
speedybeespeedybee wrote the following post 17 days ago: John-NYBW If an unpowered car is towed behind it, the warranty is voided. If I'm reading the warranty correctly, I can't even couple it with a powered RDC from another manufacturer. It can only be coupled with other Rapido RDCs. It further states that the RDC is equipped with a detector that can determine if another car is towed by the RDC. I suspect this is Rapido humour and not actual fact. They throw some bizarre stuff in their manuals sometimes.
The joke you are missing is that this mimics the actual RDC warranty. The prototype RDC warranty prohibited towing other cars with the RDC. You might say Rapido included a "prototype" warranty.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I have two Athearn rdcs with rubber band drives. Haven't run them for years but I did reduce the rubber bands to one per car. Have to say it sounded and started like a real rdc before it got up to 200mph.