I'm sure someone has asked before, but what is the purpose of a transfer caboose? Implicit in the name is that something or someone is being transferred. I seem to only see photos of them in and around yards and larger terminals. Do they serve some sort of repair function by transferring tools to the rip track or do they move caboose crews from one train to another? None of the above?
Andy
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Milwaukee native modeling the Milwaukee Road in 1950's Milwaukee.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/196857529@N03/
It's a place for the engine foreman (yard conductor) and switchmen/brakemen to ride when making "transfer" runs between yards or between railroads.
Now a days, it's a place for the switchmen to ride when making long shoving moves.
Our labor agreements call for a "shoving Platform" being available to be used on long shoves involving yard engines. Generally, a transfer run will be a yard job operated by switchmen.
Jeff
Got it. Makes sense in larger yards. I see you are in central Iowa. Are you with Iowa Interstate, UP, or Norfolk Southern? Just curious
The Milwaukee Road WarriorGot it. Makes sense in larger yards.
Just to clarify / amplify a bit, a transfer caboose would be used when a railroad was transferring cars from their yard to another railroad's yard, or picking up cars from another railroad's yard...not moving cars around within their own yard. Since they're usually only going a few miles, they don't need a full-service caboose, just someplace for the conductor and brakeman to ride in. Transfer cabooses were generally older cabooses with their cupola removed, or just a shack about the size of an old 4-wheel bobber caboose body plopped on a flatcar.
Railroad rules generally didn't allow a railroad to do both at the same time, so if railroad A and B wanted to transfer cars, railroad A would bring cars to railroad B's yard, and then railroad A's engine and transfer caboose would return to A's yard. Then railroad B would bring their cars to A's yard, and the B's engine and transfer caboose would return to their yard.
That was the advantage of getting a third railroad involved, because they could do both operations - move cars from A to B, then move cars from B to A. Lake Superior Terminal and Transfer in Duluth/Superior, Minnesota Transfer in the Twin Cities, or the Belt Railway of Chicago would be examples; there were/are many others. Often these railroads were jointly owned by several of the railroads in their areas.
Ah ok. That makes even MORE sense now. So it more or less functioned as part of an interchange/junction between different railroads within a relatively small geographic area.
wjstixRailroad rules generally didn't allow a railroad to do both at the same time, so if railroad A and B wanted to transfer cars, railroad A would bring cars to railroad B's yard, and then railroad A's engine and transfer caboose would return to A's yard. Then railroad B would bring their cars to A's yard, and the B's engine and transfer caboose would return to their yard.
There aren't any "rules" per se that prevent a railroad or crew from both delivering and picking up interchange.
It was more of an efficiency thing. If you are delivering cars, all you need is a an open track and a route to get the engines and caboose back.
If you are pulling interchange on the other hand, al the cars have to be set (they aren't switching into the track), the air hoses have to be laced and an air test done, you have to get the foreign road power on the outbound cut. A lot more steps. The home road (and home road unions) won't want the foreign road to be lacing the air and doing air tests in their yard. And the foreign road won't want their crew to be spending all day waiting in another yard for them to do the air test (which will be lowest on the priority list). So the solution is for each road to just to deliver, that divides the work equally between the roads and results in the least delay to the foreign crew.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
The MILW used them while moving cars from the main yard, out to other smaller yards.
They had yards all over town. I think just the "beer kine" had 4 yards.
Some of these trains would be over 100 cars, just going to other yards on their system.
MILW. called them terminal caboose.
Mike.
My You Tube
What would be in a transfer caboose?
I would assume a desk, stove, and chairs.
Would there be a toilet/sink?
I am pretty sure there would not be bunks.
I have never seen a picture of a transfer caboose with a chair on the open deck, but that is where I would be sitting.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 What would be in a transfer caboose?
Could be anything from just a shelter, to a desk, to places the crew could sit. Probably not a toilet or sink in the more modern ones. Maybe a heater, maybe some batteries to run a radio or lights. Would certainly be an air gauge.
No bunks for sure, toilet/sink might be there if it was a full-size former mainline caboose converted for transfer use (usually meant removing the cupola). Keep in mind some of the transfer cabooses wouldn't have room....
https://frisco.org/mainline/2015/01/12/transfer-caboose-1329/
BTW someone might remember, but IIRC there was one railroad that had seats mounted on the roof of their transfer cabooses instead of having a cupola. I think one of the Chicago area roads?
wjstixKeep in mind some of the transfer cabooses wouldn't have room....
Oh yeah, I would definitely be on a deck chair if I was on that caboose.
There is a stove, and I wonder if that steel drum is water supply for a toilet or sink.
Here's a link to the build I did in 2019. Scroll down page 1 about half way, to see the floor plan I had aquired for the caboose I modeled.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/275861.aspx?page=1
It had reversable table and chair, a conductors desk, an oil heater, with a tank, and a toilet, which they called a "dry hopper", as there was no flushing involved, just went out the bottom.
The MILW. built theirs using the frame of retired tenders.
Hello All,
A bit off-topic but...
Would or could a transfer caboose be used as a shoving platform or just crew quarters?
Back to the topic...
Where would the transfer caboose be placed in the consist after the cars to be "transferred" been picked up?
Thank you in advance for your answers.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
mbinsewiHere's a link to the build I did in 2019.
The only transfer caboose on the STRATTON AND GILLETTE roster is this one. It is a Lambert brass model of a KANSAS CITY SOUTHERN prototype.
The body on it looks kind of big compared to others in this thread. The body is about the same size as a PENNSYLVANNIA class NDa.
Good place to hide the beer.
Grizlump (grouch German)
jjdamnitWould or could a transfer caboose be used as a shoving platform or just crew quarters?
A 'shoving platform' is kind of a new thing, new term anyway. It's where an old caboose is no longer used as a caboose (often with it's doors welded shut) and is only used as a place for a crewman with a radio to stand while a train backs up a longish distance. Near my house is an oil refinery, it served by a CP (ex-Soo, ex-Milwaukee Road) yard a couple of miles to the north. There apparently isn't anyplace at the refinery to run around the train, so the train backs up to the refinery from the yard with a crewman on the back platform of an old Soo caboose talking to the engineer with a portable radio. I guess an old transfer caboose could be used for that too, if a railroad had one laying around.
It wouldn't ever be used as crew quarters, as shown in the picture I linked to earlier, they often were just a small shack on a flatcar. They weren't the same as cabooses used on mainline trains where the crew would eat and sleep in there when away from their home terminal.
jjdamnitWhere would the transfer caboose be placed in the consist after the cars to be "transferred" been picked up?
If the movement wasn't entirely within yard limits (as it probably wouldn't be if it was between two different railroads) it would work like any other train. The engine would be in front, then the cars, then the caboose. I'm sure there were situations where it was easier to have the caboose next to the engine, but then they'd have to put a flag or some other marker on the last car since they were not in yard limits.
SeeYou190 wjstix Keep in mind some of the transfer cabooses wouldn't have room.... Oh yeah, I would definitely be on a deck chair if I was on that caboose. There is a stove, and I wonder if that steel drum is water supply for a toilet or sink. -Kevin
wjstix Keep in mind some of the transfer cabooses wouldn't have room....
I'd say that steel 55 gal. drum is fuel oil for the oil fired heater/furnace.
Some photos show an LP tank sitting on the deck for the heater/furnace.
Besides being used as a shoving platform, the transfer caboose would also function as a mobile lunchroom and office (the conductor had a lot of paperwork to handle back then).
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Now for a curveball. The PRR did not have transfer cabeese (cabin cars in PRR terminology) but they did have transfer engines namely Baldwin RT-624 for the bulk of them. On the PRR they were designated as transfer engines if they did not have a toilet on board. Guess some high level manager dictated that idea into practice.
ndbprrGuess some high level manager dictated that idea into practice.
Surprise! EVERY engine ordered by the PRR was dictated by a high level manager. Train and engine workers don't write specs for and order engines.
ndbprrOn the PRR they were designated as transfer engines if they did not have a toilet on board.
Probably a labor agreement and that the vast majority of switch engines did not have toilets, since transfers are essentially "switching moves", that really isn't that unusual of a decision. If they ordered an EMD TR-5 transfer engine, there wouldn't have been toilets either.
They also had similar engines produced by Lima-Hamilton before they merged with Baldwin.
In that era there were a lot of custom, one off engine designs and Baldwin was really good about designing "custom" engines.
ndbprrThe PRR did not have transfer cabeese (cabin cars in PRR terminology) but they did have transfer engines namely Baldwin RT-624 for the bulk of them. On the PRR they were designated as transfer engines if they did not have a toilet on board.
No that wasn't why those huge RT-624 Baldwin centercabs (basically two road engines with one cab in the middle) were called transfer engines. They were built by Baldwin specifically to be used in taking long cuts of cars from one railroad's yard to another at slow speeds. RT meant "Road Transfer". (I believe the DT in the prior engine, the DT-6-6-2000, meant "Diesel Transfer".)