PRR Steam

[leonmon]

Were PRR Steam Locos painted black or brunswick green?

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the arguement of the century (last) one to.

They were offically a Dark Green that was very very close to black. In the right light freshly painted you could see the green, but once in use they where for all pratical purposes black.

For more information go to the PRR Historical society and look in the discussion form.
http://www.prrths.com/PRR_Default.html

[orsonroy]

Actually, they were painted both. The "official" way to paint a Pennsy steamer is to paint the boiler, cylinder jackets, cab sides and tender sides DGLE (there's no such thing as "Brunswick green"), the running gear, frame and trucks gloss black, the smokebox and firebox graphite, and the cab roof and tender deck "freight car color" (oxide red).

In practice, the graphite burned off quickly, turning to a sooty black, the roof and tender deck got covered with soot, and the entire engine faded in the sun and got covered in dust and soot. Throw in the fact that the Pennsy didn't wa***heir freight engines, and the real color of a Pennsy steamer is sort of a grayish-beige.

[Mark300]

If you can, check out Don Ball Jr's 'America's Colorful railroads....maybe at your local library or hobby store or used bookstore. Judging by the photos of the different Pennsy engines, Orsonroy's comments make alot of sense.

The Baltimore Society of Model Engineer's has a good set of video clips at
http://www.modelengineers.com/movies.html
Their Decapod and Hippos appear very close to my childhood memories of what I remember Brunswick green looking like.

It's very subjective.

Mark

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

Actually, they were painted both. The "official" way to paint a Pennsy steamer is to paint the boiler, cylinder jackets, cab sides and tender sides DGLE (there's no such thing as "Brunswick green"), the running gear, frame and trucks gloss black, the smokebox and firebox graphite, and the cab roof and tender deck "freight car color" (oxide red).

In practice, the graphite burned off quickly, turning to a sooty black, the roof and tender deck got covered with soot, and the entire engine faded in the sun and got covered in dust and soot. Throw in the fact that the Pennsy didn't wa***heir freight engines, and the real color of a Pennsy steamer is sort of a grayish-beige.

The PRR used black for the engines with a few drops of dark green mixed in. After the first few days, they always looked black, and after a month or so, they just looked dirty grimy gray. I got to see the T1's and they had a distinct black look, but if you got to see one washed up in the right light, you could see the slight green color. The Chicago Rail Fair in 1948 and 49 hosted many locomotives including the PRR T1. The 5502 was on display and you could see the green hue in the black color. The 5511 was used under steam on the waterfront show for the audience and I was there for one of the shows. It was a time never to be repeated.

Painting a model to have the hue is almost impossible, and black will be the correct color choice for most. I have added a few drops of dark green to scalecoat black, but it does not show up very well on a model. Many of the cabs roofs were black also, but many of the shops used the Oxide red on them, and all of the feight engines were dirty. The K4's were fairly dirty on the St. Louis line, but they did get washed occasionally.

Thre green on most of the new PRR models coming out today is not correct in my opinion.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by leonmon

Were PRR Steam Locos painted black or brunswick green?

The way I heard it, "Brunswick Green" was mixed in a proportion of 10,000 gallons of gloss black to 3 drops of Hunter Green.

Use black and weather your engines liberally. They'll look prototypically filthy dirty.

Andre

[dknelson]

Of course there were not many good color films around during the days of freshly painted PRR steam locomotives which is one reason for this long standing debate. But even people who saw them live found it hard to detect the green.
The slight greeni***int to Floquil Grimy Black has always been regarded as close to the PRR's dark green.
For some reason Milwaukee Road steam locomotives always look very very black in photographs (excepting of course the fancy ones painted in orange, maroon, etc)
It might be that if you could see a Pennsy steam locomotive next to a truly black one that you would notice the green more.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

guys thanks for the info this is one of the things i have been trying to find out for my new layout and by the way even though i have never painted a model i know from playing with colors (while painting cars) it takes a lot of tints to get the right color so you may have to play with many types of black and green color combinations/mix ratios to figure out what looks right/good to you or you could just weather them because of the few color photos i have seen they all look like a dirty grimy black

[Anonymous]

I heard the paints were made in Brunswick NJ, and the unofficial name for DGLE was Brunswick green.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by charleswrandolph

I heard the paints were made in Brunswick NJ, and the unofficial name for DGLE was Brunswick green.

The only reference anyone who's REALLY into the Pennsy has found referring to Brunswick Green is in paint manufacturer's catalogs. To date (and the Pennsy is possible THE single most researched railroad on the planet) no one has found a single official document referring to the paint as anything but Dark Green Locomotive Enamel. Shopmen had several nicknames for the "black" paint, but Brusnwick isn't one of them.

Brunswick green is a myth, when used in the context of the Pennsy.

[ndbprr]

Up until last year the official thinking from the PRRT&HS was to call it Dark Green locomotive Enamel or DGLE and for all society members to push for this conversion in their communication and referencing. However last year a letter to the editor confirmed that an official PRR paint can had been found that had the Brunswick green terminology on it. So far it is the only one and it was authenticated. So while DGLE is still preffered there may be some basis to Brunswick Green as a legitimate name. The current thinking is possibly DGLE is the official name and some shop used Brunwick for some reason.

[jimrice4449]

I grew up durring WWII about 4 blocks from the Pennsy main. Shortly after the war somebody wrote Trains magazine asking what color the new diesels were. The reply was that they were painted the same shade of green the the Psgr engines were painted to which I replied "Say what?!. Everthing that I saw on the Pennay was black (I thought). The next chance I got to sneak onto the platforms at Union Station I walked up to the head end and checked out the diesel, and by golly, in bright sunlight and pristinely clean, it was green. A GOOD RULE OF THUMBFOR MODELS IS THAT IF IT LOOKS GREEN IT'S TOO LIGHT. If you're modeling a clean engine you can, in good light, make out a differnce between body and underframe.