New Layout

[Anonymous]

I am very new to this. I just purchased the HOBO train set from lionel. I think I may have gotten to big of a scale. My Table is 81 inches by 48. I really want to do a lot of stuff. My first ? Tunnels and bridges what do I use to build these. I also want to get a moving river in my layout has anyone ever seen this. Any advice will be appericated. Thanks Cole.

[Jacktal]

On a 48X81 workbench,there's very little you can do even in HO.So if you want to do "a lot of stuff" like you say,I'd consider "N" scale as a more satisfying scale.But I dont want to say that HO can't be interesting on this surface as there are great layouts built on very limited surfaces,with great scenery and ingenious planning.It all depends on what you want from your layout,the better detailing of HO or more trackwork.Up to you.

What do you mean by "moving river"?Real water?It's been tried with less than satisfying results.First,water is 1/1 scale so that it doesn't look right on a 1/87 layout,even worse on a 1/160 layout.And just as important,water is number one ennemy of electrical components and accessories as humidity attracks corrosion,not counting the drawbacks to your scenic materials.

[jhugart]

OK, you have three basic questions:

1. What scale to use for a 48x81 inch layout?
2. How to model tunnels and bridges?
3. How to do "moving" water?

You can model any scale on your table, but the larger the scale, the less you'll be able to fit in place -- especially if you want scenery. The smaller the scale, the more you can fit, but you need more patience because you'll be working with smaller equipment, too.

If you want to just watch trains move on their own, go with N scale. With four feet of width, you can get a folded-figure-8 track and have some interest.

If you want to use a train to move things from point-to-point, use N or HO scale. This would be good if you are modeling switching in an urban setting, for example.

That said, there's no reason why you couldn't have a loop or point-to-point with Lionel O-scale equipment, but you will limit yourself to sharp curves and not much scenery.

Modeling tunnels and bridges is easy -- but the hidden question is where do you put the track? After all, if you are setting the track onto a table top, where does the water go? You probably don't want to cut apart the table.

(Incidentally, I'm assuming you _are_ willing to nail or screw things to the table, permanently. If you want to preserve your table for later use after the layout is gone or moved, then consider getting one of the pre-fab layouts you can find in the ads in Model Railroader. Some, like the Woodland Scenics stuff, I think come with all the bits you need for a self-contained layout.)

You can either raise the track or lower the river. If you raise the track, you'll need some way of keeping it above the table so you can use the space between the track and the table for modeling the land and river bed. If you lower the river, you'll have to cut out part of your table and sling something in the slot -- if indeed you don't have to rebuild the table structure so the river channel doesn't cause it to fold!

If you raise the track, you may end up using wood blocks and probably sections of plywood to support the track -- take a look at a book on model railroad benchwork for details on this. You may decide that you'd rather build benchwork from scratch, instead of using the table you have.

Modeling the landscape -- including the river bed and hills for tunnels -- you can do in a number of ways. Some people swear by the pink or blue insulation foam. Others insist on using plaster-soaked paper towels. Either way, you will have a mess -- smoothing the foam produces dust, while plaster will make splatters on the floor.

The layout I'm working on now, I'm using plaster. Consult some books on model railroad scenery for details. The same books will also tell you how to color the plaster, how to make water, how to add stuff to look like plants or rocks, etc. I've got some experience I didn't catch from the books, feel free to ask if you choose this path.

Tunnel are just holes in your hills, with a nice portal. Bridges you can get from the hobby store, and are probably held in place by the track, just position them where you will have your river.

OK, the last question: water. As the previous poster noted, real water is best left outside. There's really nothing in a model railroading scale that will look like real water. Your best bet is to model something that looks like moving water caught like a photograph. It might be possible to come up with a conveyor belt that could give the impression of moving water, but that's a lot of effort for something which probably isn't part of the joy of running trains.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

When starting out, the best method is to match the scale your are in with the space you have. The reality is that usually the person starts with the scale, then attempts to bash it into the space they have. Of course if your mallet is heavy enough and your blows strong enough, you can make a square peg fit a round hole but the results won't be pretty.

My recommendation for your area is to go either HO or N and save the Lionell for a Xmas tree layout next year.

[IRONROOSTER]

This is the age old problem. Running the big stuff is a lot of fun, but in a small area you can't do much. The trouble is, starting out you really don't know what you want. I would recommend HO. The advantage of starting with HO is you are in the middle of the sizes. You can't run long trains but the caboose doesn't wrap around to the engine if you run an 8 car train. Don't spend a lot of money stay with the cheaper stuff, build a few cars, some buildings, do a little scenery. Pick or design a track plan that allows you to run two trains and has some spurs tracks for switching. Think of this as a first layout to get some experience. By the time you get everything built and running you'll have a better idea of what you like doing and what you want in layout

I started with HO on 4x8 foot plywood table, went to 6x6 1/2 foot layout, then moved and switched scales to O on an 8x10 foot layout. Moved again and went to back to HO on a 4x8 foot table. Space became available and I switched to S scale and am currently building an 11x18 foot layout. This represents for me the happy medium between size and space. It also is about as much layout as I am going to reasonable get built - at least until I retire. Then who knows I may switch again (I saved all my HO and O stuff just in case).

Enjoy
Paul

[gparsons]

Most of all, read Model Railroader and any other model railroading magazine you find, as well as the assorted books dedicated to the different aspects of layout building. Don't try to hurry, take your time, start small and work up to bigger projects. You will find the hobby much more enjoyable and rewarding this way.

Gary

[GerFust]

im19struefan:

Welcome to model railroading!

Here is another thought. As mentioned above, there is a trade off between space and scale. If the thought of buying another train set is out of the question (holding the scale constant), rethink the table idea (changing the space). The table you are planning to use must go in a room somewhere. And it will likely take up most of the center of your average bedroom, or even living room in a small apartment or house.

If you are space-constrained then look around the room. Instead of building your railroad in the middle of the room on a table, perhaps build it around the walls on a shelf. Even in O guage two walls of a typical 12 x 12 room give plenty of space for a point to point layout. If you can model around 3 to 3 1/2 walls, all the better. Add a drawbridge across the door, now you have a large loop, and more industry possibiliites for point to point operation. This will allow for wider curves, more sidings, more scenic variety (since scenes are further apart), and plenty of room to add bridges, mountains/tunnles, etc. And, as a special bonus, you might be able to make it closer to eye level for better viewing.

If your first layout is more enjoyable from both the visual and operational perspective, and isn't in the way, it will make the hobby more enjoyable for you.

-Jer