As you know from a prior post, I am just getting into DCC. I have become frustrated trying to purchase my first DCC and sound equipped diesel (HO). I have always modelled ATSF and CB&Q. I am looking for a DCC and sound equipped F unit or SW or GP (Non-Athearn based on comments here). It seems no matter how I search such units are either sold out or for other reasons unavailable eg pre-order required.
Your recs on how to find such a unit will be much appreciated!! (I have pre ordered a C,B&Q Proto F Unit).
Thanks very much.
Henry
Henry, I am afraid that you are facing one of the realities of MRR today. Models are produced in small volume to order. Once they are produced, most of the models are not produced again. All you can do is to continue to search E-bay and hobby shops and hope that there are some models available that way. In time some of the models may be re-run again.
Having said that, here are some ideas.
Factory direct trains is selling a CB&Q SW for a discount price right now.
http://www.factorydirecttrains.com/15-657-BLI-657-EMD-SW.,-SW7-PHASE-II,-CB&Q--9266,-HO,-including-one-BLI-539-Switch-Tower,-Brown,-HO-i32557-c3552.html
Another approach is to get one of the F units from Stewart/Bowser http://www.bowser-trains.com/Stewart/Stewart%20Locos%20Main.htm and either install DCC and sound yourself, or have a professional installer do it for you.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
simon1966 wrote: Henry, I am afraid that you are facing one of the realities of MRR today. Models are produced in small volume to order. Once they are produced, most of the models are not produced again. All you can do is to continue to search E-bay and hobby shops and hope that there are some models available that way. In time some of the models may be re-run again.
Also some road names are produced more than others. I've been fortunate modeling Norfolk Southern. Even with this more popular road name, there are still a number of units that are not available (i.e. Dash 9s with DCC and sound etc..).
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
Simon,
Thanks for the great "heads-up"! Just ordered the C,B&Q #9266. Hope it is indeed in-stock.
I just received a P2K GP7 (Santa Fe) with QSI sound from Walthers. It runs very nice with good sound. A little pricey though at $225.
A while back I bought a P2K SW8 switcher (Santa Fe) also with QSI sound. This is a great little loco although you usually need to replace the traction tires with metal wheels. These may be hard to find now as I think most places have sold them out.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
davidmbedard wrote: AYou can install sound into pretty much any locomotive you can name (assuming your HO).David B
AYou can install sound into pretty much any locomotive you can name (assuming your HO).
David B
How about an Atlas S-2 switcher. I just put an NCE DCC decoder in mine but see no room for a speaker or a Sountraxx sound only decoder. Do you see any other options for sound in this one?
The NCE ATLS4 was made specifically for this loco but extends into the cab area and widens out in the cab so it fills up the space horizontally. And the cab isn't very deep vertically so I don't see where a speaker could go. Any ideas?
davidmbedard wrote: Digitrax SFX will fit nicely. A 1/2 inch speaker will fit in the end of the long hood.David B
Digitrax SFX will fit nicely. A 1/2 inch speaker will fit in the end of the long hood.
Are you referring to the SFX064D or the SFX004 Sound Bug or is there another one I'm not seeing?
davidmbedard wrote: The combo unit.David B
The combo unit.
By "combo unit" I assume you mean the SFX064D. If so, the 31mm x 16.7mm dimensions would be an extremely tight fit in the cab. If the wires coming out of each end cause it to exceed those dimensions then they would exceed the inside cab clearance.
Do you know the thickness of a 1/2" speaker? Would the speaker be mounted vertically inside the nose of the hood or horizontally on top of the front truck gear box?
Would the SFX be compatible with the NCE motor decoder?
I want to be sure this will work before I buy it.
Thanks.
davidmbedard wrote: No, you assume wrong. Take a few minutes to read...http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1127800/ShowPost.aspxI am refering to 2.SDH104K1A+FN04K1.....Motor Control, Sound and LightsDavid B
No, you assume wrong.
Take a few minutes to read...
http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1127800/ShowPost.aspx
I am refering to 2.SDH104K1A+FN04K1.....Motor Control, Sound and Lights
You said "FSX" not SDH so that was what I was looking for on the Digitrax website.
The SDH won't fit in the Atlas S-2. It's 21mm wide and the hood is only about 15 or 16 mm. So, I'm a little confused as to which one will fit.
I appreciate your reference to the thread about Digitrax decoders. This helps and explains a lot. But I still don't see anything that's going to work in the S-2.
Also, I don't see how a 1/2" speaker, including enclosure will fit in the front end of the hood??
Thank you for your help but I think I'm back to square one. Obviously I'm not well versed in all of this and must be missing something but I do want to learn.
If everybody is thinking alike, then nobody is really thinking.
http://photobucket.com/tandarailroad/
Thanks, I will check that out however U BOATS don't fit my time period too well. What is min radius track for them?
HR
Thanks for the good advice. If a decoder is already in is it safe to assume (if there is space)that adding sound is not technically difficult??
Thanks Jerry,
I can't find an SW anywhere but am really tempted by the GP7. Thanks very much for your ideas.
tarhawk wrote:I have always modelled ATSF and CB&Q. I am looking for a DCC and sound equipped F unit or SW or GP (Non-Athearn based on comments here). Your recs on how to find such a unit will be much appreciated!!
Your recs on how to find such a unit will be much appreciated!!
But specifically did you miss "Factory Direct Trains" that advertises so heavily on this site? There is a 4th of July sale on the CB&Q SW7 for $149.
Or the Fs (not on 4th of July special):
http://www.factorydirecttrains.com/12-401-F7A37L-(powered)-&-F7B-37A-(powered),-AT&SF-war-bonnet,-HO-i31124-c3394.htmlhttp://www.factorydirecttrains.com/14-306-CB&Q-EMD-F3-Ph2a-A-B-A-set,-California-Zephyr,-9960A-9960B-9960C,-LokSound-with-A-B-Lashed-Up,-HO-i31522-c3400.htmlhttp://www.factorydirecttrains.com/14-309-AT&SF-EMD-F3-Ph2a-A-B-set,-Warbonnet,-17C-17B,-LokSound-with-A-B-Lashed-Up,-HO-i31525-c3400.html
Edit. Well that was stupid. I see Simon1966 already posted the Factory Direct Trains idea.... Should have read the responses completely before I jumped in. I saw the "I ordered" response but didn't comprehend.
davidmbedard wrote: Sometimes it is hard to think "outside the box". Ive done installs for my customers that other DCC installers have called 'impossible'. David B
Sometimes it is hard to think "outside the box". Ive done installs for my customers that other DCC installers have called 'impossible'.
But how do I get the SDH104K1A + FN04K1 inside the S-2? It's wider than the hood.
Thanks for pointing out the other units that may well work. I will continue to watch Factory Direct.
On a disappointing note, the SW 7 arrived today--looks great. I am still on DC. Set it up, heard some great sounds but the motor would never kick in, it just sat there looking neat.
Called Broadway for help. They suggested I remove the shell to look for loose wire to motor; did so but no loose wires. So sadly the unit is back to them in the mail!! Disappointed but the Broadway gentleman was helpful and encouraging.
jwils1 wrote: davidmbedard wrote: Sometimes it is hard to think "outside the box". Ive done installs for my customers that other DCC installers have called 'impossible'. David BBut how do I get the SDH104K1A + FN04K1 inside the S-2? It's wider than the hood.
Hey David:
Can you help me out on this? The Atlas S-2 switcher is a great running little loco and I would really like to get sound in it.
I would really apprectiate it if you could explain in more detail just how you would install the sound decoder and speaker. I don't need to know all the nuts and bolts of it but just where you would find the room to locate the components. The hood is very narrow with little space between the top of the existing decoder and the underside of the hood. And, the cab is fairly small also.
Although the sound isn't as great as some decoders, one great advantage of the Soundtraxx "drop-in" LC decoders is that they basically take up zero room, since they are designed to replace the existing lightboard. One 1/2" speaker in an enclosure facing down over the rear truck (or front truck if it's an end-cab switcher) and you're all set.
BTW under DC BLI's Quantum system requires a LOT of power, your engine won't start moving until maybe 7-8 volts or more, may run very slowly even at top speed setting on the power pack. If you already have DCC I'd try the engine that way before sending it back.
davidmbedard wrote: Why dont you mention the downsides to the Soundtraxx LC series? Horrible power management. Lack of support for LEDs(they recommend against it). Better not have any dirty track.....itll restart.David B
Why dont you mention the downsides to the Soundtraxx LC series? Horrible power management. Lack of support for LEDs(they recommend against it). Better not have any dirty track.....itll restart.
Does a capacitor help or take care of the dirty track problem?
davidmbedard wrote: Okay, I'm now getting back into this. See comments below:IIRC This little unit requires a little work. What is IIRC?The first and really only obstical is the size of the motor. As it stands, the top of the decoder just barely interferes with the combo decoder and the hood wont close properly (just). Your best bet is to replace the motor with something a tad smaller, then the decoder will clear it just fine.The width of the combo unit is still the problem. It's 21 mm but the inside of the hood is only 16 mm. You can't trim 5 mm off of the decoder width. So this decoder just won't fit. The decoder will fit just fine (if you remove the pickup clips...they add just a fraction of an inch to the width of the decoder) and works best if you allow the 'function' end of the decoder to sit in the cab (best to wrap the end in electictians tape).5 mm is more than a fraction of an inch.2 1/2 inch 8 ohm speakers will fit nicely over the front truck.It now looks to me like a better solution would be a LocSound V3.5 #72401 with a 7/8" speaker. This also give me the Alco sound. The decoder could go in the cab and the speaker under the loco. I would need to mill out the fuel tanks and a portion of the equipment boxes on each side.Wire it up and bob's your uncle.What in the world does this mean?? I didn't take Canadian in school.David B
Okay, I'm now getting back into this. See comments below:
IIRC This little unit requires a little work. What is IIRC?
The first and really only obstical is the size of the motor. As it stands, the top of the decoder just barely interferes with the combo decoder and the hood wont close properly (just). Your best bet is to replace the motor with something a tad smaller, then the decoder will clear it just fine.
The width of the combo unit is still the problem. It's 21 mm but the inside of the hood is only 16 mm. You can't trim 5 mm off of the decoder width. So this decoder just won't fit.
The decoder will fit just fine (if you remove the pickup clips...they add just a fraction of an inch to the width of the decoder) and works best if you allow the 'function' end of the decoder to sit in the cab (best to wrap the end in electictians tape).
5 mm is more than a fraction of an inch.
2 1/2 inch 8 ohm speakers will fit nicely over the front truck.
It now looks to me like a better solution would be a LocSound V3.5 #72401 with a 7/8" speaker. This also give me the Alco sound. The decoder could go in the cab and the speaker under the loco. I would need to mill out the fuel tanks and a portion of the equipment boxes on each side.
Wire it up and bob's your uncle.
What in the world does this mean?? I didn't take Canadian in school.
wjstix wrote: Although the sound isn't as great as some decoders, one great advantage of the Soundtraxx "drop-in" LC decoders is that they basically take up zero room, since they are designed to replace the existing lightboard. One 1/2" speaker in an enclosure facing down over the rear truck (or front truck if it's an end-cab switcher) and you're all set.
Thanks for the suggestion. I couldn't find an LC narrow enough to fit in my S-2 but I did find one that was a perfect replacement for an MRC decoder in an F3. It works great. Thanks.
David B.:
I would be very happy if the combo unit would fit the S-2 but let's make sure we are talking about the same thing.
Is this the decoder you're referring to: SDH104K1A+FN04K1 Combo I assume that it is as I previously listed it and you didn't disagree.
Digitrax says it's 21 mm wide. Do you agree? Does yours measure 21 mm? The inside of my S-2 hood measures about 16.5 mm. Do you agree? Assuming that you agree on all of this then please explain just how it fits. It looks like it's at least 4.5 mm too wide? What am I missing?
davidmbedard wrote: The decoder you posted a pic of lacks the 'daughter' board of the combo unit, but you are quoting the correct decoder. I went and measured the decoder and it is 16mm wide (18 with the power clips....hence why I have to remove them...they slip right off) and the hood is 16mm inside measurement.Now, for the speaker box...you have 2 options. First you can find a 32OHM 1/2 speaker and mount it on a small baffel box over the front truck....or you can use 2-8OHM 1/2 speakers (more available, but much, much more expensive) on a simular baffel box over the front truck. Using only one 8ohm speaker gives WAY too much distortion. (ask me how I know).... 16ohms (2-8ohm in series) will sound much, much better.David B
The decoder you posted a pic of lacks the 'daughter' board of the combo unit, but you are quoting the correct decoder. I went and measured the decoder and it is 16mm wide (18 with the power clips....hence why I have to remove them...they slip right off) and the hood is 16mm inside measurement.
Now, for the speaker box...you have 2 options. First you can find a 32OHM 1/2 speaker and mount it on a small baffel box over the front truck....or you can use 2-8OHM 1/2 speakers (more available, but much, much more expensive) on a simular baffel box over the front truck. Using only one 8ohm speaker gives WAY too much distortion. (ask me how I know).... 16ohms (2-8ohm in series) will sound much, much better.
Thanks David. This is good news. I was relying on the Digitrax website which shows a 21 mm width. That's why I was confused.
Now I need to take a look at the vertical clearance needed to see if there is enough space between the top of the Ballast Weight, which sets on top of the motor, and the top of the hood. Again, Digitrax appears to show a height of 2.5 mm. Is that accurate and does it include the function decoder?
I think you previously indicated that a smaller motor may be needed. For that to be effective, it looks like the Ballast Weight might have to be milled down accordingly. Or, can the Ballast Weight simply be discarded? I notice that my current NCE decoder, and the original light board seem to need to be connected to the Ballast Weight in order for the motor to run. When I remove the screw and let the decoder set loose then the motor doesn't run. What's happening here and can the BW be discarded to allow more room?
You're right. I need to quit nit-picking the details. I'll just work thru the installation as you suggested.
Thanks for the sound file offer.
I guess it's my engineering background that makes me want to work out every detail in advance.
davidmbedard wrote: ....As per the motor swap, you can get away with no flywheels, they are actually useless in DCC (when you loose you signal the unit stops, but in DC it will use the flywheels).David B
....As per the motor swap, you can get away with no flywheels, they are actually useless in DCC (when you loose you signal the unit stops, but in DC it will use the flywheels).
Sort of true. The flywheels work the same regardless of whether using DC or DCC. The angular momentum of the flywheels resist changes in motor speed. Due to the limited size and mass of the flywheels generally used in HO and smaller, the flywheel may help the engine coast over dirt specks causing intermittent electrical contact, but won't do a lot more. The less the friction of the gear drive, and the bigger and heavier the flywheel (diameter counts a lot more than length), the more the momentum of the flywheel will impact starting, stopping, accelerating, and decelerating.
A large keep-alive circuit can provide the same resistance to dirt on the track as flywheels.
Programming of a good BEMF DCC decoder can simulate prototype momentum and provide smooth low speed running better than flywheels provided electrical contact is maintained. Decoder momentum programming is also adjustable, where the momentum of flywheels is not. If the effect of installed flywheels is large, and not accounted for in decoder programming, some strange effects can occur.
These are some reasons why DCC users may not even want flywheels in their locomotives. But being a hardware guy, I personally prefer flywheels, as big as practical. Your preferences may differ.
Fred W