TwinZephyr wrote:This is somewhat of a tangent topic... Is there any reason to suspect flanges, and maybe even axle ends or truck sideframes, might wear quicker on trains that are run on smaller radius curves?
Not unless you're running trains 14 hours a day, six days a week like they do on the layout at Chicago's Museum of Science & Industry. That layout is a real stress test for equipment, and they ARE experiencing journal, rail and motor failures. But that's EXTREME model railroading; the average modeler doesn't do as much running in a lifetime as MSI does in a month.
Ray Breyer
Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943
orsonroy wrote: Remember, LDEs are a GUIDE. Slavishly following them is completely impractical for even the largest layout spaces.
I think it was in Model Railroad Planning 2006 that had an article on a Monon RR layout. It showed a graphic with Monon IN in HO scale laid out on the full-size house. The far side of town was in the neighbor's lawn!
Selective compression - don't leave home without it.
Thanks for al of the replies. I was hoping for some intellegent thought and I wasn't disappointed. I think I am going to stick to #6 switches and 24" radius curves for the mainline but #4 and sharper curves for the sidings especially the wyes as there is not way to get anything larger to fit. I may decide to model the Tonopah and Goldfield RR's Goldfield yard as it has the only turntable between Reno and Las Vegas.
On the other hand, I spend the day in Virginia City yesterday and the V&T looks pretty interesting................. I haven't ruled out HOn3 competely either as I found a number of SPNG cars that I built in 1985 and lost in my basement for 25 years.
-Nevin
NevinW wrote:I am planning on modeling 1908 Nevada mining railroads. Largest engine will be a bachmann 2-8-0. Largest passenger equipment will be old MDC Pullman Palace cars.
This last sentence of yours is the most critical, and the one that everyone else seems to be ignoring. Realize that the Pullman Palace cars are 84 FEET long! Even with their Talgo trucks (which don't work well) they prefer broader curves. So go with the 24" curves, or even borader: what's the problem with using 28" on the mainline and 24" in sidings?
If you MUST go with tighter curves (24" or less) consider using the Overland passenger cars instead, or shortening the PP cars to a more realistic 70'-76'.
I don't have huge amounts of room - 3 walls of a 16X16 room that will have other uses.
I'm building in a 24x24 basement room, and have to both keep two doorways free and can only extend off the walls 24". I'm still using 30" minimum curves on the main (46" in the helix).
I can design a layout with minimum 24 inch radius curves and #6 mainline turnouts. Then I can use those Micro Engineering turnouts and code 70 track, I get better looking and better funtioning track. But I sacrifice a lot in operation and in copying specific layout design elements from the prototype.
Says who? There's an old saying in this hobby that premade switches make model trackwork less realistic, since they're too rigid for "free flowing" trackwork. Free flowing in the modeling world means curvy, which is the last thing that real railroads want in their switchwork. Curved switches and even wyes are avoided like the plague. So perfectly straight commercial switches are just fine. And if you're trying to cram an entire mile long LDE into an eight foot space, how is that realistic?
If I go with 18 inch radius curves and #4 turnouts I can get in much more operation and get scenes that mimic the actual prototypes that I am interested in - T&G, LV&T etc. But it doesn't look as nice and and may have to go with code 83 which is too large. ME doesn't make a #4 turnout. Atlas code 83 is easily available and works pretty well but isn't as accurate or detailed. I can hand lay track but time is always a problem for me.
Peco makes excellent code 75 switches in roughly #4, which work great with Micro Engineering code 70 flex. That's what I've used on my last two layouts, and have had no regrets. I'm also using M-E code 55 track on all stub sidings. So you don't have to resort to code 83 if you want small switches
since I am modeling the turn of the century, do you think that the smaller equipment will behave well enough and look acceptable enough to be worth the improved operation possibilities? - Nevin
No. Tight is tight, no matter how long the cars are. I'm modeling the 1950s (well, 1949; close enough) amd am running plenty of 30' and 36' cars. Unless I was banished to a 10x11 spare bedroom, I wouldn't dream of running on curves under 28", since the equipment both looks and operates better on broader curves.
WHY are you thinking about using 18" curves? Is it because you think you have no room for broader, or are you trying to cram too much track onto your layout? If it's a space thing, rethink your plan and fiddle around with real curves; you'll be surprised at how little space a 30" curve actually takes up in an inside corner. If you're trying to add everything and the kitchen sink onto your layout, you may want to take a step back and look at your plan very critically: do you actually NEED all of that track? Remember, LDEs are a GUIDE. Slavishly following them is completely impractical for even the largest layout spaces. As a modeler you have to take the LDE, figure out your available space, figure out the "essence" of the LDE, and try to transfer the plan to the space effectively. Using small curves and switches isn't usually the best answer.
Hi Nevin
I started the Amargosa Railroad using handlaid code 55 rail on wood ties. After completing about two thirds of the tracklaying I hit burnout and realized that if the railroad was ever going to be finished it would be with Atlas snap switches and Atlas code 100 flex track. Paint and ballast really help the code 100 track to blend in. I have replaced some of the snap switches with scratch built switches on pc board ties.
The Bachmann 2-8-0 will take a 18" radius curve easily. The long passenger cars may not. Have you considered the Roundhouse 50' passenger cars?
If I had it to do over again I probobly would have used Micro Engineering code 55 flex track with scratch built switches on pc board ties.
Nevin it would be neat to see how it all turns out.
Ralph
Amargosa RR
NevinW,
Nothing will prevent you from using 24" curves and code 100 track and #6 Atlas Snap-Switches on your mainline, then put code 83 track and #4 turnouts on industrial trackage, maybe the handlaid code 70 up to a given mine slag dump. This way if you ever decide to buy a 4-8-8-4 it can squeek through the mainline while your 0-4-0T, which can go anywhere, handles the switching chores.
I run a lot of old Roundhouse 36' boxcars (my Goliath is a single 50' furniture car). Using code 100 track and #4 turnouts and 18" radius curves I have had no problems. Note however that I have only 6 linear feet of run and cannot build up any great speed, so I do not know how such a train will behave when zooming.
Nevin,
One size does NOT fit all! Use the tightest radius your rolling stock will take for secondary track, and one size (2.5" in HO) larger for mainline and through tracks. Likewise, use #4 frogs where the "side track' is a mine spur or leads to an unloading dock, but go with #5 or even #6 for mainline passing sidings and tracks to be used by passenger cars.
There is no law against using code 83 pre-built specialwork with code 70 flex. In fact, if you use heavier rail on the main and lighter rail on the sidings the effect will be stunning. Painting and weathering the track and roadbed can "shrink" oversize rail, and only a die-hard rivet counting fanatic runs around with a rail size 'go/no go' gauge in his pocket.
For that matter, the prototype embargoed certain locomotives from track that was either too lightly built or too tightly curved for them. I recall seeing a NYC spur to a lumberyard, back in the twilight of steam, that had a sign next to the turnout listing all the locomotive classes that weren't allowed to venture onto it - about 90% of NYC's steam roster. A hundred yards or so from the lumber yard was another sign - "No locomotives beyond this point." The rail, when I found it under the weeds, proved to be well aged (worn out) 60# re-lay!
I'm sure that the mineral roads, which frequently were operating on a frayed shoestring, often did the same.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I would go with the 24' radius and #5 or #6 switches. An 18" radius curve looks like an 18" radius curve. Plus if you ever get any equipment that is more picky on radius, you could have a problem. The only place I would put a #4 is on an industry track. For your staging go with #6, the extra reliability is worth the room.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
My honest opinion is that a big reason to be attracted to period modeling of this sort is the sheer attractiveness of the trains and the realism that can be gained with trains and structures being modeling-friendly in size and character.
For that reason I'd go with the most realistic turnouts and minimum radius possible. It might seem counterintuitive.
I wonder if my views are influenced by the fact that photos of older era trains were made with regular lenses while so many shots of modern day trains are taken with telephoto and zoom lenses that tend to make all turnouts look like #4s and all curves look like 18" radius ....
Dave Nelson
I model with a theme of silver mining in Colorado in the 1900-1910 period. My largest loco is a 4-6-0 with 4-4-0's and 0-6-0's for other usage. I have mostly 18" radius and some 20" radius where possible. I used all Atlas snap switches and am starting to replace some of them with Fast Tracks # 4.5. My longest rolling stock is 40'. I did use all code 100 rail though.
Everything works great and looks good.
You can use 18" curves with #6 turnouts. You can also order a Fast Tracks jig for a #4 (or better a #4.5) code 70 turnout and just handlay turnouts where a #6 is too big. And of course you can vary the radius as well.
Enjoy
Paul
Early american railroads had sharp curvesand small turn outs along with small rail.
So the 18" radius curves and #4 turnouts are fine. The code 70 is also good if you can't find them in code 70 go with code 83. But code 70 would be the best.