DCC power VS pulling power?

[cheese4432]

 

As an installer of decoders for a LHS and having WAY TOO MANY customers with this locomotive with issues, I feel I have the DUTY to tell you the way it is.  The Athearn Big Boy is a well-designed great performing locomotive, an absolute gem.  It is beautiful and worth every penny.  But....the Decoder is in a different league.  The only reason Athearn went with the MRC sound decoder is because of the price...nothing more.  If they went with the Tsunami, this would have been THE greatest locomotive EVER produced in HO.....bare NONE. 

David

 

According to the review that mrr did that is true EXCEPT for the traction tires on a $450 locomotive. And it only pulled 4 more cars then a mostly metal one or not I'll have to double check that. But the sad part is that you need to pay $300 more for no traction tires.

End rant

[Anonymous]

Ok so the lesson here is:

A good engine needs a good decoder/sound system even if it costs a few dollars more.

If BLI built a heavy 4-4-0 or similar light steam the way the QSI big steam was built, I would be all over it. But for the typical cost of 400 dollars MSRP, those little engines better can do! =)

[MisterBeasley]

Even if your DCC system has a 2.5 amp limit, that 1-amp power supply you're driving it with is holding you back.  I've got a 5-amp Lenz that I was driving with an old train transformer.  Eventually, I ran out of amps and everything started slowing down, even on the flats.  I picked up an NCE 5-amp supply for about 30 bucks, and solved that problem.  Since most other DCC systems are going to require a power supply anyway, I'd recommend first going out and replacing your 1-amp "limitation" before you lay out big bucks for another DCC system.  I think you'll find that's all you need for now.

[Anonymous]

You can put a digitrax 5 amp power supply on there for less than 75 dollars. I dont know how the wires will feed into the power ternimals of the control system.

2.5-5 amps is worth the cost. Every penny.

To be honest, those 1 ampers aint got what it takes to get to the summit in good order.

[cudaken]

 CSX Robert, yes the book does say it has the BEMF control. I have yet to mess with it at K-10 trains (LHS) on there Super Cheif.

 Dave, are you sure you don't like MRC Decoders? I been having a bad day but you made me grin with that posting. I will be posting yet a nother Big Boy question but you will not be able to slam the decoder on it.

 Guess I should have asked if it is the decoder or the motor that is making the BB draw so much power.

 As far as the Bachmann 5 amp power supply, I have thought about it but it cost as much as a Zepher. Go figuer. If it was say $75.00 I would have one.

                 Cuda (not Ford) Ken posting again.

[Texas Zepher]

Well said.

You think so?  I wrote a response but deleted it because other than the Athearn Genesis part, it was off topic.

I'm going to take a wild guess here, but I'd say you're a "Chevy" man ....and that's allright

Actually among other things I pondered what Dale Jarrett <sp?> thought of them about now.  His consecutive "starts" record was terminated this weekend.

[Driline]

Well said.

You think so?  I wrote a response but deleted it because other than the Athearn Genesis part, it was off topic.

I'm going to take a wild guess here, but I'd say you're a "Chevy" man ....and that's allright

[CSX Robert]

Cudaken....this is getting WAY too repetitive.

Every few days, you have a new issue with your Athearn Big Boy. And every time I have given you the SOLUTION to ALL your issues.

Here is the problem:

MRC DECODERS SUCK. THERE IS NO WAY TO MAKE THEM UN-SUCK. THEY WILL ALWAYS SUCK. THEY ARE THE WORST POSSIBLE DECODERS TO BE INSTALLED INTO YOUR LOCOMOTIVES. ANY OTHER DECODER WILL MAKE YOUR BIG BOY RUN 100% BETTER. MRC DECODERS ARE NOT WORTH THE PC BOARD THEY ARE PRINTED ON. THEY HAVE MORE ISSUES THAN A 20 YEAR OLD FORD. WOULD YOU EVER BUY A FORD? WHY NOT? BECAUSE THEY SUCK.

Here is the solution:

INSTALL A DECODER OTHER THAN AN MRC ONE. DIGITRAX, LENZ, NCE, SOUNDTRAXX (even the lc series), ATLAS ALL MAKE DECODERS THAT WILL MAKE YOUR LIFE BETTER.

Im done for now....or until you post about the issues with your Big Boy again.

David

I didn't remember cudaken having that many problems with his Big Boy, so I did a search. I found the thread where he was having problems with the sound turning on and off, the one where he was having problems with the tender string lining(I don't think changing the decoder will help there), and the one where he asked if anyone else was having the same problem as his(the same problem as in the first thread). Unless I missed something, it doesn't sound like he is having a new problem every few days.


Cudaken,

According to the manual, the decoder in the Genisis Big Boy does have load control(BEMF). I don't know how well it works, but it might help. If you can have someone set CV123 to 1, it should turn load control on. Turning the headlight on then off, or off then on again quickly(kind of like double clicking a mouse button) turns the sound on and off( on the N-scale Challenger, it adjusts the volume through 3 settings and mute, I suspect it does the same on yours even though the manual just says on/off) Next time the sound turns off, try that to see if it turns back on.

By the way, I have an N-scale Challenger and I am very happy with it. I certainly can not imagine spending more money on it to replace the decoder in it.

[Texas Zepher]

Well said.

You think so?  I wrote a response but deleted it because other than the Athearn Genesis part, it was off topic.

[Anonymous]

Cudaken....this is getting WAY too repetitive.

Every few days, you have a new issue with your Athearn Big Boy.  And every time I have given you the SOLUTION to ALL your issues.

Here is the problem:

MRC DECODERS SUCK.  THERE IS NO WAY TO MAKE THEM UN-SUCK.  THEY WILL ALWAYS SUCK.  THEY ARE THE WORST POSSIBLE DECODERS TO BE INSTALLED INTO YOUR LOCOMOTIVES.  ANY OTHER DECODER WILL MAKE YOUR BIG BOY RUN 100% BETTER.  MRC DECODERS ARE NOT WORTH THE PC BOARD THEY ARE PRINTED ON.  THEY HAVE MORE ISSUES THAN A 20 YEAR OLD FORD.  WOULD YOU EVER BUY A FORD?  WHY NOT?  BECAUSE THEY SUCK.

Here is the solution:

INSTALL A DECODER OTHER THAN AN MRC ONE.  DIGITRAX, LENZ, NCE, SOUNDTRAXX (even the lc series), ATLAS ALL MAKE DECODERS THAT WILL MAKE YOUR LIFE BETTER.

Im done for now....or until you post about the issues with your Big Boy again.

David

Tell it like it is man I'll never buy a Genesis Athearn locomotive because of what you just described.

You don't have to go back 20 years to find a FORD that SUCKS. It amazes me even today with the easy availability of information via the internet or car review magazines that morons continue to buy poorly made unreliable vehicles, whether they be Ford or not.

Hmmmm FORD made in Mexico or Toyota Made in America. America chose Toyota.

Well said.

 

[Texas Zepher]

On the current grade the BLI's slow somewhat but not like the Big Boy. Will more power (Zepher 2.5 amps) help keep the Big Boy from slowing up a grade?

Unless it is trying to consume more power than the 2.5 amps available - no it won't help.  It is natural for things to slow down going up a hill.  In the prototype the higher stepping the locomotive (meaning larger driving wheels), the more noticable the effect.

If it really bothers you that they are different, then that is why DCC has the speed curve feature. You can program all locomotives to perform (unprototypically) exactly the same. 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I have to say that Bachmann is charging a very ridiculous price for their booster. It's not worth half that!

[jeffrey-wimberly]

It's on sale right now for $179.98

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/160-44910

 

 

[SD60M]

I know bachmann is about to release a 5 amp power booster for its DCC system so that might help you with your power problem.

The Bachmann booster is already available and has been for some time, but for the $250 they want for it, you can buy a much better system.

  Oh my god 250 dollars you could buy a zepher for that much(not to self stay away from bachmann dcc!!!).

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I know bachmann is about to release a 5 amp power booster for its DCC system so that might help you with your power problem.

The Bachmann booster is already available and has been for some time, but for the $250 they want for it, you can buy a much better system.

[Driline]

Cudaken....this is getting WAY too repetitive.

Every few days, you have a new issue with your Athearn Big Boy.  And every time I have given you the SOLUTION to ALL your issues.

Here is the problem:

MRC DECODERS SUCK.  THERE IS NO WAY TO MAKE THEM UN-SUCK.  THEY WILL ALWAYS SUCK.  THEY ARE THE WORST POSSIBLE DECODERS TO BE INSTALLED INTO YOUR LOCOMOTIVES.  ANY OTHER DECODER WILL MAKE YOUR BIG BOY RUN 100% BETTER.  MRC DECODERS ARE NOT WORTH THE PC BOARD THEY ARE PRINTED ON.  THEY HAVE MORE ISSUES THAN A 20 YEAR OLD FORD.  WOULD YOU EVER BUY A FORD?  WHY NOT?  BECAUSE THEY SUCK.

Here is the solution:

INSTALL A DECODER OTHER THAN AN MRC ONE.  DIGITRAX, LENZ, NCE, SOUNDTRAXX (even the lc series), ATLAS ALL MAKE DECODERS THAT WILL MAKE YOUR LIFE BETTER.

Im done for now....or until you post about the issues with your Big Boy again.

David

Tell it like it is man I'll never buy a Genesis Athearn locomotive because of what you just described.

You don't have to go back 20 years to find a FORD that SUCKS. It amazes me even today with the easy availability of information via the internet or car review magazines that morons continue to buy poorly made unreliable vehicles, whether they be Ford or not.

Hmmmm FORD made in Mexico or Toyota Made in America. America chose Toyota.

[SD60M]

I know bachmann is about to release a 5 amp power booster for its DCC system so that might help you with your power problem.

[rrinker]

 It's just like driving a car up a hill. Unless you give it more throttle, it slows down. Overzealous Back-EMF decoders that keept eh loco runnign the same speed up and down hills without ever touching the throttle are neat, but completely unrealistic.

 If you haven't gotten one yet, consider the upgrade chip for the BLI. One of the things it adds is a sound of power option that senses the increased load on the loco going uphill and makes it sound like it's working harder, and going downhill it backs off as if it's coasting.

 Moving up to a DCC system that allows you to program the locos will open up a lot of possibilities. 2.5 amps should bea  good amount, I've run as many as 4 sound plus 4 non-sound at the same time without it breathign hard. None were Athearn though. Not sure what has the highest current draw, a BLI sound unit or an older P2K GP7 without sound, but the current draw of the BLI sound steam locos is actually fairly modest. See the pictures someone posted here of the readout of their RRAmpmeter with a bunch of sound locos in operation.

 

                                         --Randy

[selector]

Ken, all of my engines, including the BLI's, slow on a grade...they're meant to.  Mind you, I upgraded my chips recently, but I believe that the basic QSI decoders still let the engine slow on grades.  So, I don't think it is necessarily the BB, but it could be if you have a couple more sound engines running and towing hefty loads.  Three sound engines and decent loads should just about max out your EZ-Command if it can only output the one amp.

You need, seriously, to spring for a better system that allows you to configure your V-Start (CV2) so that at the first click on your throttle, speed step one, your locos should start to move, even if it takes them 15 seconds to turn the drivers one revolution.  In fact, you should program several CVs on your locos, the ones for overall volume level, the volumes for individual sounds that tend to get in the way more than others, your inertia and momentum, your muting level, and so on.  If you have the dollars to spare, 2.5 amps will help in the long(er) run, maybe not for that long if you keep adding big steam!

[cudaken]

 OK, I am still on a Bachmann E-Z with a mer 1 amp power supply. My BLI steamers with QSI with sound run fine on it and draw very little power comparied to my Genesis Big Boy. Class J BLI takes 1/4 thottle to get rolling with 30 car dagg and Big Boy takes 3/4 thottle to move 20 cars. I know there are ways to adjust the starting power need to get the engines running I just cannot do it yet.

 On the current grade the BLI's slow somewhat but not like the Big Boy. Will more power (Zepher 2.5 amps) help keep the Big Boy from slowing up a grade?

 Main reason I ask is the bench for K-10 Mining is in a ruff stated of being done. Still needs tweeking but the 5' X 8' foot is standing on its 12 legs. To get the rise I need it looks I will need a 2.5 grade to get to K-10 mining camp.

                    Ken