Most of the railroads I am interested in modeling used wyes instead of turntables to turn their engines. Unlike my prototypes who had endless desert I have only a 2 foot wide shelf. Wyes take up considerable space, especially if you stick to a minimum radius. Since I am going to be using small engines like 4-6-0 and 2-8-0 (Spectrum) in HO scale I an thinking about going way below my usual minimum radius down to a 14-15 inch radius. My standard min. radius is 24" as I want to run the old MDC Pullman Palace cars. Will small engines go around a 15" radius without any cars attached or is this a bad idea and likely to cause problems?
I am also thinking about extending the wye out into the room beyond the shelf edge but using some kind of system to drop the tail of the wye down out of the way when the layout is not in use. Has anyone build such a device? How did you do it? thanks - Nevin
There are a couple ways to handle it. You really don't want to drop below your min radius.
One the solution you have already, using a drop down tail track.
The other is to put the wye in a corner where the benchwork is deeper. Have the front of the wye curve around the corner, and point the tail track back into the corner.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
Have you thought about a scissors wye? It can work in tight places and keep your minimum radius reasonable. You could even scissor more then one side. And yes, there is a prototype. It was used at least once on a ledge in the Rocky Mountains, but I can't remember where. Can anyone help with that?
I know this will not be applicable to Nevin's smaller steamers but for anyone else considering a Wye using the older '40s-'50-'60s locos, here's what our club did:
Rather than take space with everything required for a Wye that could otherwise be used for scenery or buildings, we merely ran the loco behind a tall hill (or building) and reversed it with an 0-5-0 switcher.....an operator's hand. It may not be prototypical but it served our purpose well for years.
After a while, we began using an F3A-F3A set for switching and eliminated the need to do any turning. Eventually we settled for GP7s & 9s erasing all directional concerns.
No matter how you look at it, a wye with a tail track long enough to turn a 2-8-0 is going to take as much space as a 'balloon' reversing loop - and I would not suggest either a drop down (I have one - major PITA, but I'm stuck with it) or reducing your minimum radius.
Why not set two turnouts where they would have to be if the wye was going to go through the backdrop, then have the tracks disappear behind something big and opaque. Only you will know that there's actually an Atlas turntable back there.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I am going to disagree with the other posters to some extent.
First of all, I would be very cautious about using any curve radius below 18". Test first!
Using a pure 18" radius (including turnouts) you can squeeze an 18" radius wye in the corner of 2ft deep shelves. The tail track has to be oriented at a 45 degree angle into the corner, and will have a maximum 10" clearance. Measure the length of your locomotives first! And there will be no room for a curved backdrop.
If you can add just a little corner fill on the aisle side of the shelves, you can get a longer tail track. Using the Atlas Custom-Line or other commercial wye turnouts will cost you a little tail track length. The same for anything but 18" radius Snap Switches at the base of the wye.
Worth plotting out in XTrkCad with your selected turnouts to see how it will all fit.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
I was recently at an NMRA regional event where a man had a modular layout with a lot of switching. However to make the layout work on it's own, as it was at the event, he needed a 2 foot extension on the main--on both sides. He had the extension clamp on and it plugged in as any other module would attach. It was a lightweight 3" channel with a diagonal support. That's it.
There's no reason why you couldn't do something similar to extend your wye.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
There is nothing wrong with having multiple minimum radii on a layout. John Armstrong in his book "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" recommends you have multiple minimums for different situations.
While many HO locomotives are made to go around 18" radius, you'll need to experiment for 15". Since Atlas makes 15" radius track, I suggest you buy a pack and test your locomotives.
One thing you can do in a corner is add a triangular section (with a curved hypotenuse) to the shelves at the corner - this will enable a wye tail into the corner to be a little longer using 3 wye turnouts.
Good luck
Paul
One thing you might look at is using a sector plate "off scene" in place of a large chunk of the wye and the tail track.
A sector plate is similar to a turntable but the pivot is at one end not in the middle.
If the Main track side of the wye runs round a curve in a corner the two legs of the wye head into the corner and vanish between buildings/under bridges. then behind the scenery you put the sector plate with the pivot way back in the corner.
To use you set the plate to the track you are coming from, run the loco on, swing the plate to the other track and send the loco off down the other leg of the wye.
If you want to get really complicated you can combine the features of a sector plate with those of a transfer table
NevinW wrote: Unlike my prototypes who had endless desert I have only a 2 foot wide shelf.....I am also thinking about extending the wye out into the room beyond the shelf edge but using some kind of system to drop the tail of the wye down out of the way when the layout is not in use.
If not, the extension will not have to be very long. I've got a wye with 22" radius in the corner. It only needs about 3.5' to work. An 18" needs even less. See the far end of the picture below. The GN box car is on the closest turnout of the wye. The tail is next to the chimney.as usual click the image to enlarge
There is an 18" radius wye in the plan on the Atlas plan here: http://www.atlasrr.com/Code100web/images/10019.jpg
Im thinking something that might be not possible.
Take the atlas switching layout here before us in this thread with the wye going into a corner.
How about we flip that wye and come out into the operator's area between the two sides of the layout instead. Potentially more room for a bigger wye and possibly one extra industry or something back there.
pcarrell wrote:I'm probably going to get slapped around for saying this, but I love N scale!
An old Atlas Custom-Line layout book I have shows a wye: 3 wye switches, 3-18" radius curves and 3-1/3 18" radius curves, doesn't take up much room. New books probably have the same diagrams, plus it shows many other wyes. I used the small one on a layout years ago and it worked fine for some medium length 4 axle diesels.
Good luck,
pcarrell wrote: Have you thought about a scissors wye? It can work in tight places and keep your minimum radius reasonable. You could even scissor more then one side. And yes, there is a prototype. It was used at least once on a ledge in the Rocky Mountains, but I can't remember where. Can anyone help with that?
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
R. T. POTEET wrote: pcarrell wrote:I'm probably going to get slapped around for saying this, but I love N scale!Philip, will you please stop trying to bring shame and remorse to all of our HO Scale friends out there; most of them are just beginning to realize that HO doesn't stand for Half-Oh but Horribly Outclassed. Actually, I have always felt that HO should change its name to HA - Half Acre which is about how much room it takes to get a decent looking layout.
WOW!
R.T., you're on your own now buddy!
I may agree, but I'm not going to say it out loud!
Hi NevinW
No one seems to have stated the obviouse.
That in a lot of cases the loco depot is inside the triangle so all your loco sheds coal stage and water tower will be inside.
I have also seen a case where a cattle yard is on the top tail of the triangle
It has been stated that they take a lot of room this is unfortunatly unavoidable, but I would forget the drop flap idea that adds more electrical problems to what you already have by choosing a turning triangle instead of a turntable IE stoping a loco plunging into the void when the flap is down
regards John
IRONROOSTER wrote: There is nothing wrong with having multiple minimum radii on a layout.
There is nothing wrong with having multiple minimum radii on a layout.
By definition, the "minimum" of anything is the smallest.
So, if you have a 12" anywhere curve on your layout, 12" is your minimum radius; any larger curve is NOT the smallest one. You might want to say you have a "minimum mainline radius," if that clarifies things.
I am working on a similar problem in designing my own layout. I am also going to be using Bachmann 2-8-0s... I had not found any information on the minimum radius that the loco would handle, so I contacted Bachmann. They recommend 18" as the minimum radius, and that seems to jive with my experiences with these models and Peco small-radius curved turnouts. The 2-8-0 usually derailed going into the diverging route of those turnouts.
Andy