I deliberately left out Bachmann for the obvious reasons you mentioned. I too have had very bad experiences with their diesels. They are poor running and not well detailed.
Atlas released models of Alco RS-1 and RS-3 which are smooth running and well detailed. They perform as well on DC too.
Cheers
Trekkie wrote: There has to be a point where when you're scale modeling you have to just kinda 'ignore' some of the elements. I never thought of garden railways as scale modeling, more of a 'cool large train that can run around your property' kind of thing.For me the N-Scale side of things is more about convienient use of space. i'll probably make trees on accident that are larger than the great redwoods of the Pacific NW United States or something, but it still is fun to do :)
There has to be a point where when you're scale modeling you have to just kinda 'ignore' some of the elements. I never thought of garden railways as scale modeling, more of a 'cool large train that can run around your property' kind of thing.
For me the N-Scale side of things is more about convienient use of space. i'll probably make trees on accident that are larger than the great redwoods of the Pacific NW United States or something, but it still is fun to do :)
It's all about what you want to do! I've been in G scale now for 6 years and I've seen a lot of different style layouts, from whimsical to rivet counting/ prototype /scratch builds. Anything you can do in an indoor scale you can do outdoors in G, only larger and better. 'sides, real trains run outdoors, so if you REALLY want to be prototypical..........
G is the ultimate dark side, once you go garden you don't go back! DCC equipped locos with full lighting and very loud sound systems? No problem! Radio control live steam Big-Boys? No problem! Real snow? No problem (if you live up North)! Working cantery? No problem! Ever put a passenger car on the track and actually have the springs in the trucks compress from the weight? You will in G scale! Detail you can see from you lawn chair while cooking a steak on the BBQ, that's Garden scale!
Ok, that was my plug for the uber-scale. Now back to your regularly scheduled forum...
The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"
See that was my only previous experience with N. I had soem nice Atlas cars, but by only locos were Bachmann and not very good. It was probably the most finished layout I had, the first time I tried ground foam products to do the scenery, and it had a rather alrge mountain with a mine I kitbashed out of the Bachmann coal tipple. Of course I made the grade too steep so my locos could only push maybe 2 cars up it, but it worked. I made concrete bases for an Atlas pier set to jack them up from wood blocks. I even built a few structure kits to finish off my sidings. I built a capacitor discharge supply because I was tired of frying the switch motors on my Atlas turnouts. I finally got tired of the poor running Bachmann locos and gave up. I didn't build another layout for many years afterwards and then it was back to HO. A few months after I packed away the N scale, Atlas came out with those nice Kato-build RS-3's. Oh well.
Since then I have been helping a friend on his N scale layout, also Reading-themed, but turn of the century. He scratchbuilds his own locos since no one makes N scale Camelbacks. He also is handlaying code 40 and code 25 track to fine scale standards, that is a bit more than I'm willing to do, but comemrcial code 55 track should be fine for me. It all runs amazingly well with DCC, every one of his locos crawls, many better than my HO locos.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
OK Randy, you're moving and losing the room... nuff said. Indeed a truly legitimate reason for the change to the WTT. (Wee Tiny Trains) In all honesty though, I'm probably way too hard on N scale. You see, the only experience I had with it was brief, (but scary, and a bit painful) back in the dark ages. (late ‘70s-early ‘80s) I've avoided it like the plague ever since...
When you didn't answer I assumed you took my next to last sentence to heart, so I did a google and found the info on Wiki. I wasn't familiar with the LNE before, now I know where you're at.
I totally agree about having single track. I'm planning a (proto) freelanced layout set (possibly) in upstate NY and want to include traffic from the Pennsy, NYC and CN, but also want single track op's. I also love the livery of the CNW (which are my initials, kinda sideways) so that will be the paint scheme. Don't ask me how I plan to justify any of this...
Thanks for the reply, and good luck on the new endeavor...
I was in the dark side for many years. Years when the selection was almost nothing. I noticed it getting darker and smaller and realized it was my older eyes and arthritic hands. I switched to HO 2 years ago. I can see again! Just kidding-enjoy the extra space while you can
Tom
cwn3 wrote:Hi Randy,I was curious about the "historical scenario" and the locale for your RR. So I went to your website in the hope of seeing it in some detail, but I couldn't find anything.I am however amazed that with all that space you're considering going over to the tiny trains! I did a quick calu and you've got like 765 sq ft of room!!! Most of us would kill for that. You could probably even do a pretty decent O scale layout in that space...If you're not happy with the layout as it is, IMHO re-design is the answer. Not sacrificing the level of detail & realism, ease of handling, selection of equipment, sound, etc, etc, etc... that HO offers. (Not to even mention what you already have invested in HO.)This will probably anger a few people, but [when working with a reasonable amount of area] I've always felt that there are only two things you get from N scale; big scenery & long mainline runs. (And of course the long trains to go with it.) I feel that in all other areas N is just too much of a compromise... It looks like you have ~ 4-1/4 scale miles, including staging, plus the branch, if I see it correctly. If it's mainline you're after I'd bet you could get a lot more in that space if you really wanted to.I see mushrooms. (But then I always do.) With a partial mushroom and one helix I managed to squeeze in the same mainline (in HO) in just over 450 sq ft of room area. Granted, in my plan scenery will be a challenge... I guess it all depends on what you're after.Just my Ignore me if you like...P.S. I am still curious about your road.
Hi Randy,
I was curious about the "historical scenario" and the locale for your RR. So I went to your website in the hope of seeing it in some detail, but I couldn't find anything.
I am however amazed that with all that space you're considering going over to the tiny trains! I did a quick calu and you've got like 765 sq ft of room!!!
Most of us would kill for that. You could probably even do a pretty decent O scale layout in that space...
If you're not happy with the layout as it is, IMHO re-design is the answer. Not sacrificing the level of detail & realism, ease of handling, selection of equipment, sound, etc, etc, etc... that HO offers. (Not to even mention what you already have invested in HO.)
This will probably anger a few people, but [when working with a reasonable amount of area] I've always felt that there are only two things you get from N scale; big scenery & long mainline runs. (And of course the long trains to go with it.) I feel that in all other areas N is just too much of a compromise...
It looks like you have ~ 4-1/4 scale miles, including staging, plus the branch, if I see it correctly. If it's mainline you're after I'd bet you could get a lot more in that space if you really wanted to.
I see mushrooms. (But then I always do.) With a partial mushroom and one helix I managed to squeeze in the same mainline (in HO) in just over 450 sq ft of room area. Granted, in my plan scenery will be a challenge...
I guess it all depends on what you're after.
Just my Ignore me if you like...
P.S. I am still curious about your road.
Part ofthe reason is I am moving and won't have that space. I don't know if I would have been happy had I built out the full plan, but I think I would have. There were too many compromises in it though since I wasn't the sole contributor.
I don't have a lot of historical information I guess because I have most of the reference material and I kind of gave up writing research papers after college. There's a lot of information available on the Reading, and the line I was primarily interestedin is actually still in use, it's the primary east-west route from New Jersey for Norfolk Southern.
The only change I have in mind is possibly going to a proto-freelance scheme in which the Reading actually aquired or retained control over the LNE. The double track of the Reading was sort of leading to a rather boring operation, whereas the single track would be much more interesting. If I go that way I will provide some fictionalized background info on the hows and whys.
ATSFCLIFF wrote: Weigh your options, all scales have their advantages and disadvantages. Yes, N seems small if you have modelling in HO or other larger scales. I am 65 years old and have been modelling in N scale for more than 25years and can still cope with its size.Happy modelling!Cheers,
Weigh your options, all scales have their advantages and disadvantages. Yes, N seems small if you have modelling in HO or other larger scales. I am 65 years old and have been modelling in N scale for more than 25years and can still cope with its size.
Happy modelling!
Cheers,
After handling N scale trains, even after a couple weeks, HO seems incredibly huge. I have the N scale Atlas atriculated autorack car, and when I saw the HO version of that car (which happens to cost $20 more!) at a store, it looked so huge, it looked like an S or O scale model to my eyes.
It isn't a bad idea. Think of the vast scenics you can do, run long trains and still have space for a few industries thrown in too!
There are steady releases of good running, well detailed diesel engines from Atlas, Kato and InterMountain. Rolling stock and structures are equally plentiful with choices as good as HO.
Oh I'm not about to give up operations - and I know it can be done, even in N scale. the Reid brothers illustrated this quite well many years ago - in many cases before some of the nice running equipment came out. It just might take more work. Smaller layout, smaller fleet, it balances out.
I once switched to N, then a robin flew in the basement window and gobbled up my west-bound local freight!
Seriously, assuming you have the room for either N or HO, the choice usually comes down to how you want to operate the railroad. HO has the upper hand if you want to switch individual cars; N stands out if you want to work in terms of complete trains.
I plan on stickign with the same era and road. Evn the same idea - thatof the Reading aquiring the LNE so I can justify single track railroading. Everywhere else other than certain branches that I don't really want to model had at least double track, and operation on double track is, well, kind of boring. Many of the locos will be easy - any RS3's and GP7's I need I can buy any road name and repaint them, it's all one color so even in N scale it wouldn't be hard. As long as I can find decals. And I'm not goint to worry about the teeny-tiny "danger 600 volts" lettering. --Randy
I plan on stickign with the same era and road. Evn the same idea - thatof the Reading aquiring the LNE so I can justify single track railroading. Everywhere else other than certain branches that I don't really want to model had at least double track, and operation on double track is, well, kind of boring.
Many of the locos will be easy - any RS3's and GP7's I need I can buy any road name and repaint them, it's all one color so even in N scale it wouldn't be hard. As long as I can find decals. And I'm not goint to worry about the teeny-tiny "danger 600 volts" lettering.
Yea - easy repaint - 50's Reading diesels - get a gallon of OD green and you will be set. I guess you will have to get some FA units also eh? The LNE fried egg on OD green though - hmmmm.
N scale though - well you are younger
Metro Red Line wrote: Zandoz wrote: Now I'm in the process of trying to work myself up to selling the old HO stuff to fund my walk on the dark side. Did that, well still sort of doing it. About 60% of my collection has been sold. Try the following: - Get yourself a table or two at a train show/swap meet (you can also meet people and sometimes make friends with fellow vendors, you can get nice discounts/deals from their N scale inventory.- Post flyers at your local hobby shop(s). Preferably with pics. I talked to one guy about buying some of my stuff and he kept flaking on me. Then he saw my flyer at a LHS and called me up wanting to buy some structures.- eBay. Nuff said.- This forum doesn't support it, but other model railroading forums do have a wanted/for sale section. PM me if you don't know where to find them.- Post flyers at local MRR club open houses.- Whether on the net or in real life you might run across a modeler who's switching scales the other way. See if you can work out a trade somehow.
Zandoz wrote: Now I'm in the process of trying to work myself up to selling the old HO stuff to fund my walk on the dark side.
Now I'm in the process of trying to work myself up to selling the old HO stuff to fund my walk on the dark side.
Did that, well still sort of doing it. About 60% of my collection has been sold. Try the following:
- Get yourself a table or two at a train show/swap meet (you can also meet people and sometimes make friends with fellow vendors, you can get nice discounts/deals from their N scale inventory.
- Post flyers at your local hobby shop(s). Preferably with pics. I talked to one guy about buying some of my stuff and he kept flaking on me. Then he saw my flyer at a LHS and called me up wanting to buy some structures.
- eBay. Nuff said.
- This forum doesn't support it, but other model railroading forums do have a wanted/for sale section. PM me if you don't know where to find them.
- Post flyers at local MRR club open houses.
- Whether on the net or in real life you might run across a modeler who's switching scales the other way. See if you can work out a trade somehow.
Really about my only option will be ebay...health and mobility issues make getting out to shows, LHSs, and clubs impractical. Doing more than a bit of procrastinating on the ebay front to...I've done a lot of buying on there, but I've never sold.
Reality...an interesting concept with no successful applications, that should always be accompanied by a "Do not try this at home" warning.
Hundreds of years from now, it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove...But the world may be different because I did something so bafflingly crazy that my ruins become a tourist attraction.
"Oooh...ahhhh...that's how this all starts...but then there's running...and screaming..."
Zandoz wrote:Now I'm in the process of trying to work myself up to selling the old HO stuff to fund my walk on the dark side.
Good luck. I hope that you can get your walk started. We jokingly refer to it as the "dark side" but I'm beginning to see the "light" as to how much more you can do, given the same space.
I really like both HO and N though and am glad that, for now, I can have both. But as I get older and ever have to relocate, I can always take my N stuff to whatever space might be available.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
Add me to the ranks of the dark side. Although I never actually built an HO layout, I've collected for 20+ years, and even went as far as having a 2nd floor built on the garage to house my intended grand pike. At every turn I was thwarted by space issues...every time I'd be just about ready to start construction I'd lose my space or access to it. I'd given up any hope of ever building a layout.
Then I saw the Kato N scale Super Chiefs...and the wheels started turning...I could do SOMETHING with a lot less of my old arch enemy, space.
jwils1 wrote: fwright wrote: Rubber gauging - 4 times the fun on one layout, just thinner wallets! Wow, what a great idea. Maybe I could also cut a hole thru my basement window and have an indoor/outdoor garden railroad. This is getting better all the time. I can hardly wait.Seriously, I am intrigued by this little N scale stuff and really would like to start getting into it. Went to a train show recently and was very impressed with the great variety and quality of N scale that is now available.The lack of sound bothers me a little but I'm sure it's going to develop more and more in time. Actually now that I've had sound for awhile, I find that turning it off and running "quiet" is kind of enjoyable. Even with sound, I rarely run more than one loco at a time with it turned on.Looking forward to rubber gauging!
fwright wrote: Rubber gauging - 4 times the fun on one layout, just thinner wallets!
Rubber gauging - 4 times the fun on one layout, just thinner wallets!
Wow, what a great idea. Maybe I could also cut a hole thru my basement window and have an indoor/outdoor garden railroad. This is getting better all the time. I can hardly wait.
Seriously, I am intrigued by this little N scale stuff and really would like to start getting into it. Went to a train show recently and was very impressed with the great variety and quality of N scale that is now available.
The lack of sound bothers me a little but I'm sure it's going to develop more and more in time. Actually now that I've had sound for awhile, I find that turning it off and running "quiet" is kind of enjoyable. Even with sound, I rarely run more than one loco at a time with it turned on.
Looking forward to rubber gauging!
Actually, when I'm involved in rubber gauging (running HO on my On30 track on the Lionel layout), and people point out that the scenery is absurdly out of scale, I simply point to my garden railway brethren.
Even if you use 1/20.3 as your scale in G, the scenery is approximately 8000 times oversize in terms of volume, and 20 times too big in any particular dimension. This makes the sin of running N on an On30 (nominal HO/HOn30) layout pale in comparison. The volume is at worst 64 times too big, and lengths 4 times too big.
Or another way of looking at the situation. A nominal 7" car is quite plausible in each scale/gauge. Just the height and width will vary (considerably). Note that a comfortable minimum radius for each is the same 18" radius.
yours in rubber gauging (should be called rubber scaling but that might help folks understand me)
Fred W
rrinker wrote: Yes I am thinking of selling off my HO and going to N. Although I will find a nice display base with rollers and a clear cover for my T1, I won't part with that until someone comes out with one in N scale that is not brass. I fairly convinced I want to do this, just not 100% yet. --Randy
Yes I am thinking of selling off my HO and going to N. Although I will find a nice display base with rollers and a clear cover for my T1, I won't part with that until someone comes out with one in N scale that is not brass. I fairly convinced I want to do this, just not 100% yet.
If you don't stop, you'll go blind.
ARTHILL wrote:Resist the evil darkside my son. It will pass.
These are not the droids you want....
fwright wrote:Just hide the N scale stuff away when those folks that take their scale seriously are coming over.
jwils1 wrote: Me too! Except I am thinking of doing both. I have plenty of room in my basement and would really like to add a modern day N scale layout and run the big newer diesels. It's funny but I really prefer diesels even though as a child I used to play around a small AT&SF station in California and saw lots of steam in action.My problem is at age 74 I'm not sure that I should undertake another layout. My HO is still not finished (and of course it never will be) and starting in N is probalbly not too smart. And, if my wife comes down to the basement how am I going to explain all of this stuff??I would also really like to do a logging/mining mountain layout (Colorado prototype of course)!! Well, at least it's fun to Plan and Dream even if I don't get to Build it!
Me too! Except I am thinking of doing both. I have plenty of room in my basement and would really like to add a modern day N scale layout and run the big newer diesels. It's funny but I really prefer diesels even though as a child I used to play around a small AT&SF station in California and saw lots of steam in action.
My problem is at age 74 I'm not sure that I should undertake another layout. My HO is still not finished (and of course it never will be) and starting in N is probalbly not too smart. And, if my wife comes down to the basement how am I going to explain all of this stuff??
I would also really like to do a logging/mining mountain layout (Colorado prototype of course)!! Well, at least it's fun to Plan and Dream even if I don't get to Build it!
A true rubber gauger would never pass up such a golden opportunity. Add your N gauge track right on the HO layout, and call it your HOn30 line. Now you can buy 3 locomotives (HO, HOn30, and N) and 3 sets of rolling stock where you only needed one before!
Just hide the N scale stuff away when those folks that take their scale seriously are coming over. But in the presence of fellow rubber gaugers you can have 3 times the fun.
And another wild thought - you can actually have 4 sets of locomotives by spreading your HO parallel tracks and raising bridges, tunnel portals and overpasses slightly. Now, in addition to HO, HOn30, and N you can buy some of that On30 stuff you've been drooling over. What are you waiting for? Your wife's permission? Time's awaisting! Get thee to thy LHS and become part of the newest and most expensive trends -
pilot wrote:2. Nscale looks more realistic, in that the smaller scale looks less contrived and toy like.
2. Nscale looks more realistic, in that the smaller scale looks less contrived and toy like.
As an N scaler myself, I have to take sception with this on a certain level. Most N scale cars come with unrealistic "pizzacutter" wheels and ride too high off the tracks. A good percentage still come with those awful Rapido couplers and virtually every rolling stock has toy-like truck-mounted couplers.
But if you know what you're doing, all of the above can easily be remedied. Low-profile wheels are now becoming the standard.
Though anything made in the past 15 years is immensely better than anything made in the past. That's the great thing about N scale, compared to the other scales it's more progressive in that there's no such thing as "trains were better back in the good old days" in this scale.
I made the switch last fall and the timing seemed right. I switched to N mainly because of the radius thing.
Brunton wrote:I know. I was just being a wiseacre . I figured that, but it really is unfortunate. I'd be sorely tempted if it was viable. BTW, V&S, did you know that ampersand in your user name makes the "quote" function barf?I had no idea. I guess I never tried to quote myself. I wonder if I can change it. I'll look when I get a chance.....
I figured that, but it really is unfortunate. I'd be sorely tempted if it was viable.
BTW, V&S, did you know that ampersand in your user name makes the "quote" function barf?
I had no idea. I guess I never tried to quote myself. I wonder if I can change it. I'll look when I get a chance.....
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
rrinker wrote: Yes I am thinking of selling off my HO and going to N. --Randy
Yes I am thinking of selling off my HO and going to N. --Randy
VailSouthwestern RR wrote: Trekkie wrote: Brunton wrote:Why not compromise and go to something in between HO and N - maybe TT scale...Wouldn't that be about two engines and three rolling stock? Not being a smart aleck here I just haven't seen any TT scale stuff anywhere. Just seems pretty rare.I think that in the US TT really isn't an option, unless you really like scratchbuilding. It is unfortunate, since I think it could have been a popular scale, with the right timing, marketing, etc.
Trekkie wrote: Brunton wrote:Why not compromise and go to something in between HO and N - maybe TT scale...Wouldn't that be about two engines and three rolling stock? Not being a smart aleck here I just haven't seen any TT scale stuff anywhere. Just seems pretty rare.
Brunton wrote:Why not compromise and go to something in between HO and N - maybe TT scale...
I think that in the US TT really isn't an option, unless you really like scratchbuilding. It is unfortunate, since I think it could have been a popular scale, with the right timing, marketing, etc.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton