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Weathering the pit questions

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  • Member since
    February 2001
  • From: US
  • 506 posts
Posted by snowey on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 1:16 AM

 pcarrell wrote:
Chalks can be usede to weather with great effect.  If you don't like how it comes out, just wash it off and start over.  You can then seal them it dullcoat.  Thin as paint and won't gum up the works!  Cheap too!
if you spray the surface with dullcoat first, then let it dry and apply the powder, there's no need to apply it (the dullcoat) after; as the powder  will stick to the first coat. The initial coat provides "tooth" that holds the powder in place.

Also BRADGEON ENTERPRISES makes chalk powder with an adhesive mixed in, so you don't have to spray the surface at all.

"I have a message...Lt. Col....Henry Blakes plane...was shot down...over the Sea Of Japan...it spun in...there were no survivors".
  • Member since
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Posted by Dave-the-Train on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 12:15 PM

Check my posts for dry brushing technique... um Confused [%-)] can't find it quickly.  There's ;ots of ways of adapting brushing styles with as little paint as possible.  Practicing on a junker or scrap plastic is a good tip.

How is this turntable going to be powered... in theory as per the "real thing"?

Tongue [:P]

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Monday, January 22, 2007 7:16 PM

Yes, that is is.  Go overboard on getting the brush free of paint the first time, and then pain a left-over piece of model styrene to see the effect...or use a junker box car.  I think most of us don't remove enough of the paint.  You can always add more later, and the experts will say let it dry first to see what it will look like, and then add another layer.

I must admit, though, that I have had great success with washes.  Say a drop of the paint squeezed out of the small plastic bottle, and then about three times as much water added.  Mix, and then use a small brush tip to wipe up the side of a flange on a girder or something.  I'll dip a toothpick a couple of times in Burnt Umber, use the toothpick to take half a drop from Red, and then about the same as the Red in plain Yellow.  Mix, add a full tsp of water, mix, and use a fine brush to splash flanges, ledges, rivet row, etc.  I'm pretty sure the TT bridge was done that way.  Experiment, as I did, and you will develop some magic...if I can, you are sure to be a full Wizard!

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  • From: US
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Posted by jacon12 on Monday, January 22, 2007 4:27 PM

Thanks Crandell, I'll refresh my memory on dry brushing.  If I remember right though, it's getting most of the paint off the brush by wiping on a cloth, paper etc. before working on the piece with it.

JaRRell

 

 

 selector wrote:
Jarrell, all the best weathering I have done was with slightly diluted acrylic craft paints using the dry brush technique.  As a last coat to simulate rust pooled on flanges or ledges, us a light wash once or twice.

 HO Scale DCC Modeler of 1950, give or take 30 years.
  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: US
  • 4,648 posts
Posted by jacon12 on Monday, January 22, 2007 4:25 PM

Philip, I'm not following you.  Are you saying to dump some appropriate powder into water, brush it on and use it that way?

Thanks,

JaRRell

 

 

 pcarrell wrote:
Chalks can be usede to weather with great effect.  If you don't like how it comes out, just wash it off and start over.  You can then seal them it dullcoat.  Thin as paint and won't gum up the works!  Cheap too!

 HO Scale DCC Modeler of 1950, give or take 30 years.
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Monday, January 22, 2007 4:12 PM
Jarrell, all the best weathering I have done was with slightly diluted acrylic craft paints using the dry brush technique.  As a last coat to simulate rust pooled on flanges or ledges, us a light wash once or twice.
  • Member since
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Posted by pcarrell on Monday, January 22, 2007 4:06 PM
Chalks can be usede to weather with great effect.  If you don't like how it comes out, just wash it off and start over.  You can then seal them it dullcoat.  Thin as paint and won't gum up the works!  Cheap too!
Philip
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,299 posts
Posted by Dave-the-Train on Monday, January 22, 2007 4:01 PM

Glad to help... worth it to notice the signature you've added at the end of your posts Laugh [(-D]

I like the logic as well. Approve [^].  If that metal included 40 gallon drums that were open or didn't have a bung in the end some nasty, oily goo may have washed out as well as rainwater seeped in and overflowed them. may even have happened recently... soil or sand put down to make the surface less slick and stop people walking round the pit from getting all oiled up and even skidding over.

You got nettles and/or brambles growing in this junk pile?  And a cat with a litter of ferile kittens...

Sorry... brain is overheating again...Tongue [:P]

  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: US
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Posted by jacon12 on Monday, January 22, 2007 2:17 PM

Thanks Dave for the information.  I'm in HO scale and the pit is used by a smallish railroad in the southeast US..... not a lot of money if you know what I mean.  The pit has been around a good while and now serves both late steam and early diesel.  As far as the rust on the sides of the pit, that would be from where metal was left nearby over the years and some rusty water washed into the pit.  Not much, just a spot here or there.  Also, as you said, from rebar.

Thanks for the help and the suggestions. 

JaRRell

 

 

 

 Dave-the-Train wrote:
 jacon12 wrote:

I have a Walther's 90ft turntable that I'd like to do some weathering to before I assemble it. 

 1. What scale?

2. What are you turning on it, steam, diesel or both?

2A. How old is the pit?

 This would be primarily of the 'cement' pit itself.  I'd prefer NOT to use any kind of powder for fear of it getting into the gearing in the pivot point itself or in the gear 'track' that goes around the inside perimeter. 

3. Use  acrylic paints that you can get from art shops.  These are water based.  For thick gooey stuff you can also get water based oil paints.

  I'm going to give the pit a washing and then several light coats of cement colored spray paint as a base coat. 

4. Sounds good.  If you hunt back through my posts I've done tons of stuff on the colour of concrete, joints, cracks and stains. 

If the pit is old it could have cracks across the floor.  Dirt might have formed slands in puddles... non of which needs to be powder when you model it... build up layers of gooey paint to make the dirt/mud and (very gently/sparingly) pour in whatever you normally use for water/puddles... whether you paint the "concrete" of the base black first or introduce layer(s) of black in the "water" is up to you and some experimenting first... hopefully you can end up with an oily puddle...  the real clever thing will be to get the rainbow effect that oil on water can have Mischief [:-,]

Wet or dry an old pit may have some plants starting (even really sprouting) in any cracks... both in the walls and floor.

 I'd like to show some grime and oil mostly in the bottom, 

5. Grime & Oil are fine... you should think about where/what they are coming from... grime is often formed from dust getting into grease/oil.  Don't know what grease was used on US (or even UK) turntables but for some jobs we used grafite grease...FILTHY stuff.  A Lot of other grease was thick and brown - not a lot different from dog mess in appearance... for some reason when this got wet it often went yellow - a sort of weak puss colour - This would oxidise (?) or whatever and become brown again as a thin crust... altogether pretty disgusting. 

plus some rust stains on the pit's sides. 

 6. what's rusting???  What is washing it into the pit?  If it's not washing in from the top just how is the rust getting there... doesn't mean there won't be rust... just needs some logic behind it. The age of the pit will greatly influence what weathering there is.  Obviously if it's young there is likely to be less mess.  Older, and concrete, you could get all sorts of things... including cracks in the concrete and rust washing out from the cracks where water is getting in and rusting any rebar in the structure.  Old concrete also flakes and can have had chunks knocked off in various ways/at various times.  Sometimes a really damaged bit of concrete gets a repair patch... tbis will be nice and new and clean.

What should I use to do this and how is the best way to do it in your opinion? 

7. Acrylics as above... and loads of information from studying pics of concrete and pits especially.

Any suggestions much appreciated since I've not done much in the way of weathering up until now.

8. #1 Put up a BIG sign to remind yourself that you can always add another thin layer or detail of weathering (whatever it's on) whereas taking off too much is a real problem or impossible.

Brushing techniques can be worked up on any similar material so that you don't have to start with no skill on the expensive item you want to look good.

Check out all the weathering stuff here.  There's very little difference between weathering a car and what you are working on... they're made of the same stuff.

Thanks,

JaRRell

Is the TT rail around the edge or in the pit?

Of course, after all this you will have to weather that rail and the TT itself!  Approve [^]

In a poorly maintained pit you can get litter and the odd can of grease... possibly open and part full/with water messing the grease...

Something that is often hard to see is that pits usually have some sort of drainage... saves having to pump them out... which can be needed even with drains if they get blocked.  Drains can be in the floor or in the bottom of the sides.  In the floor the floor is usually built to focus water toward the drain(s).  Just because there are drains it doesn't mean that there won't be the other dirt and puddles... there can even be plants growing out of the drain grids.

Hope that this helps

Tongue [:P]

 HO Scale DCC Modeler of 1950, give or take 30 years.
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,299 posts
Posted by Dave-the-Train on Monday, January 22, 2007 12:21 PM
 jacon12 wrote:

I have a Walther's 90ft turntable that I'd like to do some weathering to before I assemble it. 

 1. What scale?

2. What are you turning on it, steam, diesel or both?

2A. How old is the pit?

 This would be primarily of the 'cement' pit itself.  I'd prefer NOT to use any kind of powder for fear of it getting into the gearing in the pivot point itself or in the gear 'track' that goes around the inside perimeter. 

3. Use  acrylic paints that you can get from art shops.  These are water based.  For thick gooey stuff you can also get water based oil paints.

  I'm going to give the pit a washing and then several light coats of cement colored spray paint as a base coat. 

4. Sounds good.  If you hunt back through my posts I've done tons of stuff on the colour of concrete, joints, cracks and stains. 

If the pit is old it could have cracks across the floor.  Dirt might have formed slands in puddles... non of which needs to be powder when you model it... build up layers of gooey paint to make the dirt/mud and (very gently/sparingly) pour in whatever you normally use for water/puddles... whether you paint the "concrete" of the base black first or introduce layer(s) of black in the "water" is up to you and some experimenting first... hopefully you can end up with an oily puddle...  the real clever thing will be to get the rainbow effect that oil on water can have Mischief [:-,]

Wet or dry an old pit may have some plants starting (even really sprouting) in any cracks... both in the walls and floor.

 I'd like to show some grime and oil mostly in the bottom, 

5. Grime & Oil are fine... you should think about where/what they are coming from... grime is often formed from dust getting into grease/oil.  Don't know what grease was used on US (or even UK) turntables but for some jobs we used grafite grease...FILTHY stuff.  A Lot of other grease was thick and brown - not a lot different from dog mess in appearance... for some reason when this got wet it often went yellow - a sort of weak puss colour - This would oxidise (?) or whatever and become brown again as a thin crust... altogether pretty disgusting. 

plus some rust stains on the pit's sides. 

 6. what's rusting???  What is washing it into the pit?  If it's not washing in from the top just how is the rust getting there... doesn't mean there won't be rust... just needs some logic behind it. The age of the pit will greatly influence what weathering there is.  Obviously if it's young there is likely to be less mess.  Older, and concrete, you could get all sorts of things... including cracks in the concrete and rust washing out from the cracks where water is getting in and rusting any rebar in the structure.  Old concrete also flakes and can have had chunks knocked off in various ways/at various times.  Sometimes a really damaged bit of concrete gets a repair patch... tbis will be nice and new and clean.

What should I use to do this and how is the best way to do it in your opinion? 

7. Acrylics as above... and loads of information from studying pics of concrete and pits especially.

Any suggestions much appreciated since I've not done much in the way of weathering up until now.

8. #1 Put up a BIG sign to remind yourself that you can always add another thin layer or detail of weathering (whatever it's on) whereas taking off too much is a real problem or impossible.

Brushing techniques can be worked up on any similar material so that you don't have to start with no skill on the expensive item you want to look good.

Check out all the weathering stuff here.  There's very little difference between weathering a car and what you are working on... they're made of the same stuff.

Thanks,

JaRRell

Is the TT rail around the edge or in the pit?

Of course, after all this you will have to weather that rail and the TT itself!  Approve [^]

In a poorly maintained pit you can get litter and the odd can of grease... possibly open and part full/with water messing the grease...

Something that is often hard to see is that pits usually have some sort of drainage... saves having to pump them out... which can be needed even with drains if they get blocked.  Drains can be in the floor or in the bottom of the sides.  In the floor the floor is usually built to focus water toward the drain(s).  Just because there are drains it doesn't mean that there won't be the other dirt and puddles... there can even be plants growing out of the drain grids.

Hope that this helps

Tongue [:P]

  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: US
  • 4,648 posts
Weathering the pit questions
Posted by jacon12 on Monday, January 22, 2007 11:30 AM

I have a Walther's 90ft turntable that I'd like to do some weathering to before I assemble it.  This would be primarily of the 'cement' pit itself.  I'd prefer NOT to use any kind of powder for fear of it getting into the gearing in the pivot point itself or in the gear 'track' that goes around the inside perimeter.   I'm going to give the pit a washing and then several light coats of cement colored spray paint as a base coat.  I'd like to show some grime and oil mostly in the bottom, plus some rust stains on the pit's sides.  What should I use to do this and how is the best way to do it in your opinion?  Any suggestions much appreciated since I've not done much in the way of weathering up until now.

Thanks,

JaRRell

 HO Scale DCC Modeler of 1950, give or take 30 years.

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