help on steel mill please

[Anonymous]

Hello,

I have a large layout blueprint of the United States Steel Companies' "Lorain  Works" circa 1940. The print was last updated in 1940 and shows the entire mill from ore docks on the Black River to the Shipping Yards  1 1/2 miles east.  The mill is located in Lorain Ohio approx. 25 miles east of Cleveland. All the trackage is shown including the narrow gauge lines used to transport the ingots from reheat to rolling mills.  The works included coking facilities, blast furnaces and pipe mills.  The lorain works is what they used to call a vertically integrated mill, raw material to finished product. The size is about 4 feet by 16 feet so you dont need a magnifying glass to see the details.  All the shops are labled.  If you want i can have it copied and mail it to you.  my email is [e-mail]    thanks - later

[NS-Norfolk]

I grew up near Lorain, OH where steel was king in the 1950's and early 60's.  There were several ore unloading docks on the Black River and about 4 miles south, a massive USS Steel plant plus National Tube had a rolling mill there, also.  I can remember seeing the glow of the blast furnaces from my backyard 24/7.  We'd drive over the 21'st bridge and watch them dump 15-20 cars of red-hot slag.  Pentrex has a video which might help you. 

http://pentrex.com/bo1dvd.html

While I have not seen it, they advertise video of the Lorain Ore docks in Volume 1. 

 I don't know how much you can accomplish on a 10' x 10' layout (the National Tube Plant alone was 1 mile long) but, that does not mean don't try.  You might do a section of the plant with its attendent rail service against a steel mill backdrop.  Modeling the blast furnaces would be my choice.  They were vertical, round affairs with piping coming out the tops.

Best of luck!

[ericboone]

Unfortunately you have done the math wrongly.  You have in essence multiplied 5x10x87 squared and is the reason for your vast amount of space.  I stand by my calculation of 5 x10 x 87.  It still would occupy a large area and receives no outside raailroad shipments of any kind so is useless  for generating traffic.  It still remians one of the smaller buildings in a steel mill. 

 

Sorry.  I'll definitely stand by my math here.

1 foot in real life is 87 HO scale feet.  If I have a 1 foot long by 1 foot wide square in full scale, that means I have an 87 foot long by 87 foot wide square in HO scale.

To find the area, you multiply length times width.  In full scale, an area 1 foot long by 1 foot wide is 1 square foot.  In HO scale, that same square is 87 feet long by 87 feet wide.  You multiply 87 x 87 and you have 7569.  Thus 1 full scale sqare foot is the same as 7569 HO scale square feet or 87 squared.

[ndbprr]

Actually, the HO scale square foot equivalent is 5' X 87 X 10' X 87 = 378,450 HO scale square feet.  That is plenty of room for the ingot stripper you mentioned. 

100' in HO scale is about 14 inches and 200' is about 28 inches.  Thus the ingot stripper in HO scale will easily fit on even in a bedroom sized layout.

 

Unfortunately you have done the math wrongly.  You have in essence multiplied 5x10x87 squared and is the reason for your vast amount of space.  I stand by my calculation of 5 x10 x 87.  It still would occupy a large area and receives no outside raailroad shipments of any kind so is useless  for generating traffic.  It still remians one of the smaller buildings in a steel mill. 

[roadrat]

I came across this site purely by accident and remembered your post hope this helps

http://littlebear5628.livejournal.com/profile

 

bill

[ericboone]

So if you want to use a 5' x 10' area it is 50 sq. ft. time 87 for the equivlent actual size which is 4350 sq ft.  The ingot stripper building alone which is about the smallest building mentioned at 200' by 100' is 20,000 sq. ft. by itself or five times the space you have so modeling of an integrated mill realistically is out of the question. 

Actually, the HO scale square foot equivalent is 5' X 87 X 10' X 87 = 378,450 HO scale square feet.  That is plenty of room for the ingot stripper you mentioned. 

100' in HO scale is about 14 inches and 200' is about 28 inches.  Thus the ingot stripper in HO scale will easily fit on even in a bedroom sized layout.

[RR Redneck]

No dude, we switched it back. It is cool again. LOL

[tgindy]

Two of my previous links referenced the in-print work of Dean Freytag.

There is an online article at this website titled, "Dean Fretag's HO scale South Ridge Lines serves the steel industry."  There is one picture and the trackplan at http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=211

As the kids would say, "Sweet!" 

[tgindy]

The Johnstown, Pennsylvania, Bethlehem Steel Plant had many facets:

Coke Plant.

Wheel Plant.

Car Engineering. 

Car Shops.

Rolling Mill. 

Wire Mill.

Bethlehem Mines.

Quemohoning Dam.

Hinkston Run Dam.

Dalton Run Dam. 

Blast Furnace.

Bethco Pines Country Club. 

...and much more that spanned mile upon mile upon mile.  Did I mentioned how broad and expansive the Bethlehem's operations were?  Not to be outdone, there was the United States Steel division across town.

Interestingly enough, Bethlehem Steel and U.S. Steel bought out homegrown steel mills and expanded upon them.  Did you notice that Bethlehem Steel owned more than an Open Hearth?

---

Suggestion:   There is a phrase attributed to John Armstrong called, "Given & Druthers."

Example #1:  A given would be all aspects of the steel mill.  A druther is to concentrate modeling (3) aspects - parhaps a coal mine that supplies the coke plant that supplies the blast furnace.

Example #2:  A given might be a 10' x 10' room.  A druther would be to move from HO Scale to N Scale and give yourself the equivalent of a 20' x 20' room.  Walthers has steel mill kits in both HO Scale and N Scale.

Example #3:  Would a multi-level layout be feasible? 

Example #4:  The above steel-making facilities are now mini-mills & retro-fitted business.

---

Here are some resources that may help...

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/976284/ShowPost.aspx

http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=S&cmdtext=cranes&MAG=ANY&output=3&sort=2

http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=S&sort=2&output=3&cmdtext=%22FREYTAG%2C+DEAN%22

http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=S&sort=2&output=3&cmdtext=%22KEMPINSKI%2C+BERNARD%22

Take your time in your research, and your common sense will provide the desired simplicity and visioning.

 

 

[Anonymous]

I have to agree with ndbprr.  I'm no expert on the steel industry but I seen one in Harrisburg, PA (or what was left of it) while on a business trip.  The industry was huge.  The rolling mill alone was massive.  Walthers has a compressed rolling mill available that 16.25" x 10" x 10"  http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3052

 I have seen backdrop scene of a steel industry.  You could use that as your steel works and model a yard that brings in the raw materials and ships out finished products

[ndbprr]

  What you are asking is impossible if you want it realistic.  The only cranes I have ever seen are a few self propelled with electromagnets to pick up scrap but they are rare.  That is more common practice at scrap suppliers.  A typical steel mill scrap yard is an adjunct of the melt shop and uses an overhead crane.  You will need about twenty acres for a blast furnace and an additional 20 acres for a melt shop.  If your mill is casting slabs directly add about ten acres for a slab caster on the side of the melt shop otherwise you will need an ingot prep and stripper building of about 100 yards by 50 yards, soaking pits about 1/8 mile long,  twenty to thirty acres for slab storage, 3/4 mile for the hot strip mill, twenty to thirty more acres for hot band storage.  A cold mill, temper mill, anneal facility as big as the hot strip mill.  Galvanize lines or EGL, chrome or tinplate lines, inside storage for finished coils, thirty to forty acres for pellets for the blast furnace.  A rotary kiln for burnt lime that occupies 5-10 acres and we are just touching the tip of the iceberg.  It just isn't possible in a 10' square room.  So if you want to use a 5' x 10' area it is 50 sq. ft. time 87 for the equivlent actual size which is 4350 sq ft.  The ingot stripper building alone which is about the smallest building mentioned at 200' by 100' is 20,000 sq. ft. by itself or five times the space you have so modeling of an integrated mill realistically is out of the question.  You will have to choose what portion you want to model and put the rest on the backdrop.  It is far easier to model the yard connection to the railroad serving the mill then a steel mill itself.  Everyone has an interchange yard where the connecting railroad drops off cars for the mill and the mill drops off cars being shipped.

[Anonymous]

Hi im building a 1960s era layout 10'-10' and i have a good knoledge on what buildins there are but thers tiny things like cranes cars and misc items i have no idea about.if someone can tell me how to set up the arrangement because i want it fully intergarted wher coal limestone and ore go in and at the end coils come out.i want it to be as prototypically correct as possible whill not covering more than half of my layout.so any hel