What dilution of glue do you use to hold down grass, foam etc

[Anonymous]

I have been installing a lot of balast lately and I have given up on any kind of bottle applicaton for applying glue..

I was in Ace hardware over the weekend and in thier culinary area and I found a "flavor injector." It's a 30cc syringe with a 2" long injector tip. As a matter of fact I went back today and purchased another one. I use one to with a water/alcohol mix first and then the other one with a 50/50 mix of white glue and water.

I am laying N Scale track and in my switch yard I don't want any loose balast on top of the ties so I clean ALL the balast off the top of the ties. For the balast between the rails I apply the water/alcohol mix first this locks the balast in place. The water/alcohol fix is placed on to the top of the ties and let it run off the sides into the balast material (maybe two drops.) I do two section of track at a time. Then I go back with the other glue/water syringe and apply one drop of glue directly on top of the balast. With the balast locked in place you don't get any divet holes from the glue droping onto the balast material. For the end of the ties I put one drop of water/acohol at the end of every other tie and then go back with the gule.

This is takes time but it looks great.

 

Dewayne

[n2mopac]

I use 4:1 for scenery, but 2:1 for ballast. Reason: on my first layout I used 4:1 on everything with no problem except that after about 4 years my ballast started to come lose in places. I have used 2:1 on ballast, soaking first with straight 70% alcohol, and have never had a repeat of this problem.

Ron

[metalfrog]

regardless of what you use..wet water and or 70/90 alcohol it will not affect the color any way.terry...

[Anonymous]

I know this is an old thread, but I am new to this stuff, and I have a lot of "new to me" questions.

So using the rubbing alcohol won't affect the color of the clump-foliage, ground foam,etc ?

[HARVEN]

I've been trying your suggestions and ran into one problem.  The Alchohol sprays great from a spritz bottle and helps draw the glue down.  But I tried 3:1 water to glue with detergent in a spray bottle.  All I get is a stream, it will spray once or twice, then I guess clogs to a stream.  I stopped at Wally world, bought a bottle same as the Alchohol one and same thing.  What are you all using to spray your glue, I'm talking ground cover not ballast.  Should I be using an eye dropper ?  Thanks again,  Dave

Dave, try this, zap you glue in the microwave for about 20 to 30 seconds just before you start spraying, I have used this method with great success and buy the way I use a windex bottle with the push pump type sprayer and have found it to be the best sprayer I have been able to find.

"The Harven"

[n2mopac]

Personally I  use 3:1 water/white glue for scenery, but I step it up to 2:1 for ballast as too much dillution can result in loose ballast a couple of years down the line.

Ron

[Medina1128]

If you're going to spray glue, you need to pump some clean warm water through the nozzle to keep it from clogging. For a really fine mist, instead of using those generic pump bottles from Wally World, get your wife/girlfriend/daughter to save her pump hairspray bottles for you. They have a finer mist.

[Medina1128]

To  fill in those bare spots after vacuuming, use a medicine dropper to wet it with rubbing alcohol, sprinkle some foam on it, wet the foam with more alcohol, then apply your diluted white glue. I prefer diluted white glue over matte medium, because it's just a matter of resoaking it to remove any 'oopses'. I just did some experimenting and I've found that 2:1 holds much better for thicker vegetation, especially on hillsides, where the thinner mixture wants to run downhill, taking the foam with it, even with texture. One thing that I did find that worked, was to brush on white glue at full strength, then sprinkle on some sand. That really gives the scenery some bite and helps keep things in place. Brushing on diluted (2:1), then sprinkling on the foam, then spraying with alcohol or wet water works great for large areas. The finer the mist, the better, as this causes less "rivulets" or streams causing bare spots. But, then these vertical bare spots look just like erosion, if you want to model it. Remember, water does the same thing in nature!

[metalfrog]

for spraying the glue mixture i use a garden plastic sprayer bottle similiar to a windex bottle.it has an adjustable ring where you can adjust from a stream to a spray.the glue mixture might be a little to thick.might want to add a little more water.the above procedure work's well for me.sometime's i will use a squirt bottle and just flood the area i want to secure.the squirt bottles i use come from my wife's hair color kit.it's a small plastic squirt bottle with a plastic cap on it.terry........

[cruikshank]

I've been trying your suggestions and ran into one problem.  The Alchohol sprays great from a spritz bottle and helps draw the glue down.  But I tried 3:1 water to glue with detergent in a spray bottle.  All I get is a stream, it will spray once or twice, then I guess clogs to a stream.  I stopped at Wally world, bought a bottle same as the Alchohol one and same thing.  What are you all using to spray your glue, I'm talking ground cover not ballast.  Should I be using an eye dropper ?  Thanks again,  Dave

[metalfrog]

in the past i've used white glue at a ratio of 3/1 or 4/1 but i now use 50/50 white glue /water.i also use the full strength 91 alchol wetting the foam with this and of course applying the white glue.it dries very hard. i speed  up the drying time by letting a fan blow over the surface.the same 50/50 solution is what i use for the ballast.works very well for me as i never have any balllast that crumble's which could be due to not wetting the ballast enough or not using a stronger glue/water ratio.i've used matte medium but just don't like it very much.terry........

[Dave Vollmer]

I mix mine in an old saline bottle that I also use as an applicator (since it has a dropper nozzle).  It seems to keep indefinitely in there.

[cruikshank]

When you mix up a batch of diluted glue, will it keep.  Can you store it for another day?  Thanks,  Dave

 

[Dave Vollmer]

Hi "ft-fan," I like ordinary white glue diluted with four parts water to one part glue. But before applying the glue, I soak the ballast or ground foam with a spray of rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol if you want the fancy name). I use at least a 70-percent strength of alcohol, but when I've been able to find it, 90 percent works even better. The trick is to get the glue to flow into the material you're trying to bond, and the alcohol does this better than any "wet water" mixture I've ever tried. So long, Andy

Andy's very right about the alcohol.  This is my fourth layout, but the first time using alcohol to soak the ground cover, and it works like a charm!  In fact, the alcohol lets me put all my ground foam down at once instead of one layer at a time, because it will draw the glue all the way down to the surface without disturbing the ground foam.

I use roughly 60%-40% water to glue (with a drop of detergent) for ground foam and more like 75%-25% water to glue for ballast.

[jecorbett]

Whether I am applying ground cover to a flat surface or a plaster hill, I first apply a base coat. I do this by painting the surface with a earth colored latex paint, then sprinkle on a base layer of ground cover while the paint is still wet. For this I usually use Woodland scenics Earth or Soil. This will give the subsequent layers something to grip to, much the same way a primer coat of paint will give the finish coat a surface to grip. After the base layer has dried, I then sprinkle on remaining layers, starting with the fine textures and following with coarser materials. After it is down and it looks right, I give it a good soak with wet water, then drizzle in the diluted white glue.

If you try to apply your ground cover without first establishing a base layer, especially if you apply directly to bare plywood, you may find that it collects into puddles of the wet water, leaving other areas bare.

The key to good scenery is in layering your materials. It gives your scenery texture rather than having an unrealistic looking ground of uniform color.

[MisterBeasley]

I've just been doing this, although I'm admittedly still new to this phase of the hobby.  I tried a different technique, and so far it's worked pretty well.

The area I've been working on is hilly, made of cut and shaped pink foam, joined in places with plaster cloth.  I skim-coated the whole thing with a thin layer of Gypsolite, a gritty plaster, which I'd squirted some dark brown acrylic paint into.  Since the Gypsolite is gray, the net effect was a light tan, since I didn't use too much paint.  I just wanted to get away from the white/gray look.  When the Gypsolite was set, I painted on some green with a thin acrylic wash, more green on the flats, less on the slopes, with any "striping" running down-slope to look like erosion.

After that was dry, I took a half-bottle of Elmers glue and filled the rest with water, for a 1:2 mixture.  (Like I said, I'm new at this, so the next time it will be a bit thinner.)  I used an old paintbrush to spread the glue on, and then sprinkled on two or three different colors of turf - dark brownish-green on the brown areas, and lighter green on the green areas.  I added highlights of yellow and some flocking for shrubbery.  If the flocking was too loose, I dripped on a bit more glue.  I'd work on a small patch at a time, maybe 6x6 inches, but that would only take a couple of minutes so the whole thing went pretty quickly.

This is one slope before the Gypsolite, paint, glue and turf:

 

And here it is after:

 

I added some Woodland Scenics Talus in a few places for an accent.  The last step on this will be ballasting the track, which ends right in the foreground of picture 2.  Now, can you spot the liftoffs?  Since this area of the layout is over the subway tracks, there are parts of two separate liftoffs visible in the second picture.

[ft-fan]

OK, I did what you all said, but I can see when I vacuum or tip the layout, I may have some bare spots.  What is the proper way if any to put a second or filler coat of ground cover over the first?  Thanks it's moving forward,  Dave

 

You can just keep putting it down till you get it right. Ground foam, wet water (or alcohol, per Andy S.), glue/water mixture, ground foam, wet water/alcohol, glue/water, foam, alcohol, glue mixture, etc. use different colors, use different textures, use the same stuff again. You don't have to wait for it to dry, just keep putting it down, you can keep going as long as you want. Or, wait till it dries and see where you want to cover some more. I don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" way.

FT

[ndbprr]

Whatever amount of water you need to get  it to flow will work.  The water evaporates bringing the glue concentration back up to 100%.   here in the south burbs of CHicago a local hobby shop started us on using a model airplane fuel bulb as an applicator.  In essence it is a huge eye dropper that will hold about 1/2 pint of glue mix.  I wet the scenery with a spray bottle then apply the glue mix with the bulb.  You have to go slowly so you don't cause washouts but for ballast you can flood the area inside the rails and watch it flow to the edges.  When I do that I make sure there is a tie directly below the tip so the flow is stopped by the tied and forced horizontal.

[cruikshank]

OK, I did what you all said, but I can see when I vacuum or tip the layout, I may have some bare spots.  What is the proper way if any to put a second or filler coat of ground cover over the first?  Thanks it's moving forward,  Dave

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

There are two mixes I use depending on what I have on hand. A 3 to 1 white glue and water mix or a 5 to 1 matte medium and water mix.

[Sperandeo]

Hi "ft-fan,"

I like ordinary white glue diluted with four parts water to one part glue. But before applying the glue, I soak the ballast or ground foam with a spray of rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol if you want the fancy name). I use at least a 70-percent strength of alcohol, but when I've been able to find it, 90 percent works even better. The trick is to get the glue to flow into the material you're trying to bond, and the alcohol does this better than any "wet water" mixture I've ever tried.

So long,

Andy

[ft-fan]

You can get matte medium at an art supply store. I have a tape of Dave Frary, he uses 3:1 water:white glue, or 4:1 water:matte medium. Put down the foam, spray it with wet water, then with the dilute glue or matte medium. Hope that helps some.

FT

[SilverSpike]

Diluted white glue is typically a 1:3 ratio of glue to water, or 1 part glue and 3 parts water. Some also add a few drops of liquid dish detergent to break up the surface tension.

Are you looking for a wet water formula?

Then, 16 ounces water to 1 teaspoon of liquid dish detergent.

Some others use a wet water forumla for extra surface tension breaking ability and it is 1:1 ratio of water to rubbing alcohol (70% solution or higher)

[cruikshank]

It's a nice day here in PA so I'm scenicing a layout.  I'm new to this.  What is the solution of White Glue to water for a overspray.  Also what is Matt Medium.  Please answer while it's not raining in PA.  Thanks,  Dave :)