nucat78, that is an interesting technique and I see how it would prevent having to take up large sections of flex track when having to remove a switch.
Thanks guys for all your great ideas on floating a switch!
I now have a better idea of my plan for putting down track and switches.
Ryan BoudreauxThe Piedmont Division Modeling The Southern Railway, Norfolk & Western & Norfolk Southern in HO during the merger eraCajun Chef Ryan
SilverSpike wrote: jjackso8 wrote:Sorry to so new but what is the advantage of "floating " the turnouts in th e forst place. I have never heard this term before. I don't mean to interupt the stream but I have no idea what this means! No interruption at all! In fact, the idea is that switches are a single point of failure on a layout track system. And with moving parts (points) they can become stuck at times, especially when ballast is applied around these parts. The technique of "float" means that the switch is either not affixed to the roadbed, or as one post mentioned that the rails are not soldered to the adjoining tracks. This also allows for easier removal and replacement of the switch should it fail.
jjackso8 wrote:Sorry to so new but what is the advantage of "floating " the turnouts in th e forst place. I have never heard this term before. I don't mean to interupt the stream but I have no idea what this means!
No interruption at all! In fact, the idea is that switches are a single point of failure on a layout track system. And with moving parts (points) they can become stuck at times, especially when ballast is applied around these parts. The technique of "float" means that the switch is either not affixed to the roadbed, or as one post mentioned that the rails are not soldered to the adjoining tracks. This also allows for easier removal and replacement of the switch should it fail.
I neither glue down, solder or ballast my switches very much. I do superglue down small pieces of non-flex track at all three "routes" of the switch. I do this because I have had mixed results pulling up track that was caulked down and / or ballasted. Cutting through or mutilating some sectional track to "release" a switch is much less painful than ruining a switch when you pull one up.
Surfstud31 wrote:Kato recomends floating the switches to allow for rail expansion and contraction due to humidity. Since I use kato track that is exactly what I'm going to do. Makes sense to me.
I put mine down with yellow glue and can take them up easily with a putty knife.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
Nailing or gluing a turnout to the roadbed can twist or distort the points. Even one errant grain of ballast can gum up the points on a turnout. And trying to remove that grain (or correct the nailing or gluing) can bend the points or cause other permanent damage.
Believe me on this -- rather than try to "mask" your layout from the fleck stone spray paints in the long run it will be easier and cheaper to slice out the existing cork and insert a new piece that was painted outside first -- AFTER seeing of course if you like what you've done. I have never seen spray paint behave like this fleck stone stuff does -- it is a sort of explosion of paint. It gets everywhere, not even as directed as your usual spray can of paint.
It takes some practice to get it right, and you might end up not liking the effect after all is said and done. So it is better to try until you like it and then insert the piece into the layout rather than trust fate and spray it on site so to speak.
Dave Nelson
I remember reading that article on using the flex spray paint and it does give me an option. But since my cork roadbed is already attached to the plywood I would need to butt up some sheets of cardbard on either side of the cork to prevent the spray getting everywhere else. I will have to test this out on a scrap piece soon.
The wax paper idea does sound like a clever solution to an age-old problem. But Maxwell Smart would only discuss it under the Cone of Silence I am sure.
While preparing for a clinic on track for my local NMRA divisional meet, I just tried a technique that Model Railroader editor Terry Thompson recently suggested. That is, use no ballast under the turnout at all, but spray the cork roadbed with some of those "stone fleck" spray can paints that people use for craft projects and interior decorating ideas. Thompson suggested a Rust Oleum product but my local hardware store had Krylon in a variety of shades. One of them is very close to Chicago & North Western "pink lady" ballast. Another is darker, like cinders. I also mixed the two while spraying and that seemed to be the most believable of the three -- sort of mottled looking like real ballast. It is an illusion of ballast and with careful blending where the "real" ballast begins you can fool the eye pretty convincingly. Real ballast on the slopes of the roadbed would probably help also.
I might add by the way that I did my spraying with the stone fleck paints outdoors. I used cork roadbed for turnout but also painted regular pieces of cork roadbed just to have a supply on hand. You do not want to do this on the layout. You have very little control over the stuff and moreover it attacks foam scenery.
SilverSpike wrote: I will start putting down track on my layout soon and one of the techniques I have run across in conversations at the local train shop and periodically on this forum is the idea of allowing switches to float and not attaching them to the roadbed. I understand the reasoning behind this technique, but it brings up a question for my inquiring mind! If I put down ballast on the switch and then I apply some diluted glue in the process I will adhere the switch to the roadbed as well, right? So it will not be a floating switch at this point. How do you get around having a floating switch and with some ballast too? Cheers, Ryan
I will start putting down track on my layout soon and one of the techniques I have run across in conversations at the local train shop and periodically on this forum is the idea of allowing switches to float and not attaching them to the roadbed. I understand the reasoning behind this technique, but it brings up a question for my inquiring mind!
If I put down ballast on the switch and then I apply some diluted glue in the process I will adhere the switch to the roadbed as well, right? So it will not be a floating switch at this point.
How do you get around having a floating switch and with some ballast too?
Cheers,
Ryan
I tried to float my switches and with DC everything was fine. When I went to DCC and sound engines, problems began. Vertical motion, caused by them floating, caused intermittment losses of connectivity as the heavier diesels went through the switches. The momentary loss of contact was just enough to stop a sound locomotive. I had to go back and spike them. Now all new ones get yellow glue on the switches to hold them to the roadbed. No more problems.
Since my turnouts are built up of raw rail on wood ties, spiked through to the top layer of ballast form, I don't have the option of "floating" them like commercial pre-builts. What I do is build them on little dominos of subgrade (or sometimes not-so-little dominos with several turnouts on them) and fasten them into place with screws accessible from below in proper L-girder fashion. Every rail has a joint where it crosses the border from fixed to removable roadbed, so all I have to do is slide the rail joiners clear before removing the domino.
At least, that's the theory. Reality so far has been that careful tracklaying has paid off with bulletproof turnouts that have never had to be removed for repairs. Some (not on dominoes) have been in service since 1980.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
fiatfan wrote:I use nails to hold the switches in place unitl the ballast/glue is dry. I ballast the switches the same as the rest of the track with extra care taken not to foul the points. When the glue is dry, I go back and remove the nails. Generally, nothing moves. A couple of weeks ago, after spending most of the evening completing the ballast in one town, I encountered a rather stubborn anil and while removing it, I managed to rip up the turnout and about three feet of flex track. I shut off the power, turned off the lights, and went upstairs and read a book! Tom
I spent all evening fiddling with an important split to a mine spur with a Fast Tracks #8 turnout. It is a good turnout...or was, rather...but I have tweaked it a little too much to do well in the very tricky roadbed surface where the through route goes on level, but the diverging route begins to sink very soon after the frog...not a good situation. Anyway, I finally had to do what you did...leave.
Life is simple - eat, drink, play with trains!
Go Big Red!
PA&ERR "If you think you are doing something stupid, you're probably right!"
tgindy wrote:As Agent Maxwell Smart might say: "The old wax paper under the moving parts of the switch trick, eh?"
I can almost hear Don Adams voice now!
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
cacole wrote: I fasten turnouts down with caulking at each end beyond any moving parts, and then very lightly ballast the area where there are moving parts.
I fasten turnouts down with caulking at each end beyond any moving parts, and then very lightly ballast the area where there are moving parts.
Yep. Same exact process for me. To me "float" means that I don't solder them, not that they're not fastened down at all. I do caulk them down very lightly though, quite a bit thinner layer of caulk than on my regular track.
pcarrell wrote:I float my turnouts and then lightly ballast them. As I install them I put some wax paper under the moving parts to keep them clean. Then I then take a screwdriver handle and tap the wood next to the turnout to settle the ballast and use a makup brush (Not the wifes! Have her buy you your own!) to make sure all is in place. Then a very light coat of white glue and water mix to hold it secure. Lastly, slip the wax paper out and you're done.
Wax paper! Great technique, that way the ballast is set to the switch but the whole thing is still floating on top of the roadbed. Oh, boy, now you got me wheels a turnin'....