Benchwork

[Anonymous]

I am new to model railroading as well as carpentry. For my first layout I'm trying to build a simple 4 x 8 layout. In my atempts to build a simple 4x8 square frame with 1x4's I ran into a problem. After completing the frame and attempting to screw on a 1/2" sheet of plywood, I could not get the sheet perfectly flat. There was always a bulge or dip somewhere on the table no matter what I did. Looking at the lumber I found that the 1x4's were not true. In some places it was 1x3.

I talked with the lumber yard I bought the lumber from and he said that all the lumber is preshrunk so it is impossible to get a true 1x4. So I have decided to instead have a sheet of 3/4" plywood ripped into 4 inch wide strips to make a "true" piece of lumber

My question for those that know carpentry is,will I still be able to make a square 4x8 frame with the plywood like I would with 1x4,and still be strong enough that I dont need braces everywhere just to hold it up?

[Anonymous]

I am new to model railroading as well as carpentry. For my first layout I'm trying to build a simple 4 x 8 layout. In my atempts to build a simple 4x8 square frame with 1x4's I ran into a problem. After completing the frame and attempting to screw on a 1/2" sheet of plywood, I could not get the sheet perfectly flat. There was always a bulge or dip somewhere on the table no matter what I did. Looking at the lumber I found that the 1x4's were not true. In some places it was 1x3.

I talked with the lumber yard I bought the lumber from and he said that all the lumber is preshrunk so it is impossible to get a true 1x4. So I have decided to instead have a sheet of 3/4" plywood ripped into 4 inch wide strips to make a "true" piece of lumber

My question for those that know carpentry is,will I still be able to make a square 4x8 frame with the plywood like I would with 1x4,and still be strong enough that I dont need braces everywhere just to hold it up?

[IRONROOSTER]

It's true that dimensional lumber you buy is less than the stated size. The size is what comes off the saw at the mill. This is pretty rough so the next step is to plane the surfaces which reduces the size. Usually all the finished pieces in a batch are the same size at approx 3/4" x 3 3/4". This is okay for model railroad usage. To get a flat table top first ensure that all the boards are straight by sighting along their length. Second assemble the frame of 1x4's on a flat surface such as a basement floor (be careful as these are some times sloped and you don't want to be where the slope changes) and flip it over. The plywood should rest flat on the framework. The plwood itself may be warped. Usually you can force it flat by attaching it with screws to the framework. Using 3/4" plywood ripped to 4' wide will work, but you should use blocks at the joints to avoid screwing into the edges of the plywood. Again assemble on a flat surface. With either method you should use some diagonal bracing from the legs to the frame to avoid a wobbly table. With 1/2" plywood you should include some cross pieces in the framework for support. The NMRA's website www.nmra.org has a beginners section you might find helpful.
Enjoy
Paul

[IRONROOSTER]

It's true that dimensional lumber you buy is less than the stated size. The size is what comes off the saw at the mill. This is pretty rough so the next step is to plane the surfaces which reduces the size. Usually all the finished pieces in a batch are the same size at approx 3/4" x 3 3/4". This is okay for model railroad usage. To get a flat table top first ensure that all the boards are straight by sighting along their length. Second assemble the frame of 1x4's on a flat surface such as a basement floor (be careful as these are some times sloped and you don't want to be where the slope changes) and flip it over. The plywood should rest flat on the framework. The plwood itself may be warped. Usually you can force it flat by attaching it with screws to the framework. Using 3/4" plywood ripped to 4' wide will work, but you should use blocks at the joints to avoid screwing into the edges of the plywood. Again assemble on a flat surface. With either method you should use some diagonal bracing from the legs to the frame to avoid a wobbly table. With 1/2" plywood you should include some cross pieces in the framework for support. The NMRA's website www.nmra.org has a beginners section you might find helpful.
Enjoy
Paul

[dknelson]

My own bench work uses 1x4 pine framework but using plywood tops no larger than 2x4 feet -- the Handipanels sold at Home Depot and such. The smaller size tends to minimize the impact of the inevitable warping of both the pine and the plywood. It uses more wood this is true, and uses more legs. This is the "domino" approach favored by David Barrow.
Dave Nelson

[dknelson]

My own bench work uses 1x4 pine framework but using plywood tops no larger than 2x4 feet -- the Handipanels sold at Home Depot and such. The smaller size tends to minimize the impact of the inevitable warping of both the pine and the plywood. It uses more wood this is true, and uses more legs. This is the "domino" approach favored by David Barrow.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

I would find another lumber yard. And pick your lumber yourself, you can look down it lenghtwise and tell if it's straight or check it on the floor. 1X4 number 2 should be straight and uniform in size with no loose knots. Plywood is hard to use as you want. It's hard to get it cut straight and hard to fasten together. Otherwise it's great? Also, use a board every 16 OC in the 8' direction. What about 2X4s? Most places they cost less than 1x4 but are heavier. It sounds like the lumber yard sold you culls and then blew you off. FRED

[Anonymous]

I would find another lumber yard. And pick your lumber yourself, you can look down it lenghtwise and tell if it's straight or check it on the floor. 1X4 number 2 should be straight and uniform in size with no loose knots. Plywood is hard to use as you want. It's hard to get it cut straight and hard to fasten together. Otherwise it's great? Also, use a board every 16 OC in the 8' direction. What about 2X4s? Most places they cost less than 1x4 but are heavier. It sounds like the lumber yard sold you culls and then blew you off. FRED

[Anonymous]

You'll need at least 3 cross braces for a 4x8 layout. I'd space them every 2 feet. Dimensional lumber is generally 1/4" smaller in each direction than the stated size. A 1x4 is really 3/4" x 3 3/4" so you need to consider that 1/4" of missing wood when doing your planning. Some lumber yards can do a good job of ripping plywood in straight cuts and many will charge for the cutting. 2x4's (1 3/4 x 3 3/4) are cheaper and usually straight but heavier than I want to work with. You could use foam board instead of plywood for the top and that will reduce the weight.

[Anonymous]

You'll need at least 3 cross braces for a 4x8 layout. I'd space them every 2 feet. Dimensional lumber is generally 1/4" smaller in each direction than the stated size. A 1x4 is really 3/4" x 3 3/4" so you need to consider that 1/4" of missing wood when doing your planning. Some lumber yards can do a good job of ripping plywood in straight cuts and many will charge for the cutting. 2x4's (1 3/4 x 3 3/4) are cheaper and usually straight but heavier than I want to work with. You could use foam board instead of plywood for the top and that will reduce the weight.

[rkdave]

This may seem like the "Yuppie" approach, but I use Seivers benchwork. I started with it after seeing their ad in MR. After 10 years and 3 moves, it's still good as new. A little expensive to get started, but you can have your benchwork done in one or two evenings and move on.

BTW - I also experimented with Micore 300 after an MR article and have not bought plywood since.

[rkdave]

This may seem like the "Yuppie" approach, but I use Seivers benchwork. I started with it after seeing their ad in MR. After 10 years and 3 moves, it's still good as new. A little expensive to get started, but you can have your benchwork done in one or two evenings and move on.

BTW - I also experimented with Micore 300 after an MR article and have not bought plywood since.

[Puckdropper]

If you know someone with a table saw, you could have them cut it for you. You'll get a straight cut if the saw is set up properly.

[Puckdropper]

If you know someone with a table saw, you could have them cut it for you. You'll get a straight cut if the saw is set up properly.

[Anonymous]

How about styrofoam? Lighter, forgiving, paintable, carvable, etc. As a first layout, it is worth a try. There are many good articles on the technique, and when done, just hang it on the wall. As a first layout, especially for a youth, it seems to make sense.

[Anonymous]

How about styrofoam? Lighter, forgiving, paintable, carvable, etc. As a first layout, it is worth a try. There are many good articles on the technique, and when done, just hang it on the wall. As a first layout, especially for a youth, it seems to make sense.

[Anonymous]

Two questions, were the Supports mounted flush, so the area that the plywood rests on is flat? if not you will have the same problem. hey if its sturdy, why not go with the lumps? most areas i know are NOT lump free??

[Anonymous]

Two questions, were the Supports mounted flush, so the area that the plywood rests on is flat? if not you will have the same problem. hey if its sturdy, why not go with the lumps? most areas i know are NOT lump free??

[scotttmason]

Word has it that post-war plywood sheet prices have doubled...

[scotttmason]

Word has it that post-war plywood sheet prices have doubled...

[Anonymous]

Yep, yesterday (10/4), a 1/2" sheet of underlayment plywood cost be $30!

[Anonymous]

Yep, yesterday (10/4), a 1/2" sheet of underlayment plywood cost be $30!

[der5997]

Once you've sorted out the frame construction, come back and reconsider the plywood sheet that you were going to lay on top of the frame. Were you planning on a perfectly flat layout, or one with some hills and valleys? The layout planning books from people like Klambach show different ways to get the hills and valleys into your plan. Many of them involve cutting the plywood and raising or lowering the cut "tongues" to form grades. This will necessitiate cross members in your frame, and if you are lowering the "tongue", the placing of the cross pieces requires a bit more thought. (Glad to see you are thinking of screws, as repositioning is so much easier than with nails.
Have a look at your track plan and then look at your benchwork plan in the light of where you want the tracks to go, and what you want them to do.
Have fun [:D]

[der5997]

Once you've sorted out the frame construction, come back and reconsider the plywood sheet that you were going to lay on top of the frame. Were you planning on a perfectly flat layout, or one with some hills and valleys? The layout planning books from people like Klambach show different ways to get the hills and valleys into your plan. Many of them involve cutting the plywood and raising or lowering the cut "tongues" to form grades. This will necessitiate cross members in your frame, and if you are lowering the "tongue", the placing of the cross pieces requires a bit more thought. (Glad to see you are thinking of screws, as repositioning is so much easier than with nails.
Have a look at your track plan and then look at your benchwork plan in the light of where you want the tracks to go, and what you want them to do.
Have fun [:D]

[cacole]

The question of benchwork is one that has nearly as many answers as there are modelers. Many magazine articles over the years have trumpeted open grid benchwork made out of 1" lumber, L-girder, T-frame, and lord only knows how many other types. A lot is going to depend on how much weight your framework will support and whether or not it will be attached to something such as a wall on at least one side for stability. At the Cochise & Western Model Railroad Club's indoor HO-scale layout, the benchwork is constructed of a 2x4 framework fastened to the wall, with cross bracing every 4 feet, topped with hollow core doors or 3/4 inch plywood. That's strong enough to get up onto if the need should arise. It didn't really need to be this strong, but we didn't want to take chances on warpage or movement caused by changes in the weather. The layout is in an old, uninsulated, non-airconditioned building with no central heating, so the temperature inside is nearly the same as outside. Our portable modular layout is constructed of 1x4 framing with 2x2 legs and 1/2 inch plywood. When these are set up and fastened with C-clamps, there is practically no movement at all. A friend who moved here from New York State built a layout on styrofoam, and then moved it out here in sections and reassembled it. His framework is 1x4 material with no support underneath except cross bracing every 2 or 3 feet. He used a very dense styrofoam that is at least 2 inches thick, so it will support considerable weight. Styrofoam has many advantages over wood and is worth considering if you're just starting out. In addition to weight savings, your benchwork only needs to be a simple framework for the styrofoam to sit on or drop down into. If you use the yellow or pink dense styroroam of at least 2 inches thickness, it will not warp, and there is never any expansion or contraction. Latex paints and caulking won't dissolve styrofoam, so these must be used for scenery.

[cacole]

The question of benchwork is one that has nearly as many answers as there are modelers. Many magazine articles over the years have trumpeted open grid benchwork made out of 1" lumber, L-girder, T-frame, and lord only knows how many other types. A lot is going to depend on how much weight your framework will support and whether or not it will be attached to something such as a wall on at least one side for stability. At the Cochise & Western Model Railroad Club's indoor HO-scale layout, the benchwork is constructed of a 2x4 framework fastened to the wall, with cross bracing every 4 feet, topped with hollow core doors or 3/4 inch plywood. That's strong enough to get up onto if the need should arise. It didn't really need to be this strong, but we didn't want to take chances on warpage or movement caused by changes in the weather. The layout is in an old, uninsulated, non-airconditioned building with no central heating, so the temperature inside is nearly the same as outside. Our portable modular layout is constructed of 1x4 framing with 2x2 legs and 1/2 inch plywood. When these are set up and fastened with C-clamps, there is practically no movement at all. A friend who moved here from New York State built a layout on styrofoam, and then moved it out here in sections and reassembled it. His framework is 1x4 material with no support underneath except cross bracing every 2 or 3 feet. He used a very dense styrofoam that is at least 2 inches thick, so it will support considerable weight. Styrofoam has many advantages over wood and is worth considering if you're just starting out. In addition to weight savings, your benchwork only needs to be a simple framework for the styrofoam to sit on or drop down into. If you use the yellow or pink dense styroroam of at least 2 inches thickness, it will not warp, and there is never any expansion or contraction. Latex paints and caulking won't dissolve styrofoam, so these must be used for scenery.