Track Ideas - Garage layout with Pulleys???

[Anonymous]

I used a pully system on a 5x9 HO layout when I was kid living with my parents (Dad wouldn't let me take over the garage, not a true believer) and it worked very well. Folding legs were under the table and I simply unfolded them before letting it down. When it was fully up, there were chains that hook the table to to relieve strain on the cabels. It lasted for ~7 years with no signs of wear or break down in the system. Just buy good quality pullies.

[Anonymous]

I built my 3'x8' n scale layout on "stilts" that allow the cars to be pulled in, at least up to the hood, which is all I need. My VW Golf fits fine! =) The layout is not too high to work on and the extra height is great to work on the wiring underneath.

[ukguy]

Two old threads for you to read..

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=-1&TOPIC_ID=34696&REPLY_ID=351023#351023

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=-1&TOPIC_ID=39690&REPLY_ID=411696#411696

Have fun & be safe
Karl.

[Woody Down Under]

Raising the layout with ropes and pulleys is the hard part - I simplified this on my 6' x 8' HO layout by hooking an A-frame on each end, with a pulley attached to the top of the "A". The fixed end of the rope was attached to a rafter in the garage, the rope then going to the pulley on the A-frame and over another pulley on the rafter. This gave me a 2 to 1 mechanical advantage. In other words, it halved the pull needed to raise the layout. I could raise and lower it myself, by doing one end at a time, a foot at a time. Of course, with 2 people available it was much simpler!

The A-frames were just pulled back up to the rafters when the layout was down. They were hooked onto 2 carrying handles at each end - which also made it easy for 2 people to carry the layout - at least until the weight of scenery got a bit much!

Tony.

[Anonymous]

These are fantastic ideas. I measured the height (Roughly) this morning before work. It appears to be a 12 foot tall ceiling. The car is a Saturn that I would want to park in the winter months (NM, still mild!). Plus the garage already has steps to get into from house, so figure I should be able to go level with the house. The reality is that I could build a 8 foot wide platform by 10 feet and have my own room basically to work in on top of the car (Hood). There is a wasted space at the front of the garage that would be part of this (4 foot wide by 6 foot deep) that is already partially raised (18 inches).

The goal is to not build a solution that would just be temporary, but permanent. We just remodeled the house and the old kitchen cabinets surround the other side of the garage, but give ample room for storage and opening both doors.

I had thought since we have a raised foundation maybe looking into excavating a basement, but have no idea if even possible. I don't see us outgrowing the house and there is an option given funds to add on relatively easily.

What I am also thinking about is maybe building good size layout in the back of the garage (4 x 6 area) and further out by a couple feet. I would then run a 2 foot strip along the side. But I want to have the trains return from the front of the garage which would require about 3.5 feet wide area for an 18" curve back. But if I graded it up along the side and then had the return raised higher than the car height, it would work well (Except potentially no permanent platform for maintenence!)

Ryno

[oldyardgoat]

I recently moved from Sou. Calif. I had an "L" shaped N-scale layout in the garage. It measured 8' along the front of the two legs of the "L" , and 12' along the back and far side. One leg of the "L" was against the back wall of the "room", while the other was out over one of the two spaces for the cars.
Everyone suggested a suspension/pulley system, but I had a design incorporating a double-track mainline with a sub-level ten track staging yard.
A lady at Home Depot came up with a solution (a male employee could not visualize my delema). A big load-bearing beam ran across the ceiling of the room. I attached a couple of 1x2s to the beam and to the end of the frame of the extension. Then, using the lady's suggestion, I got two cable sets for correcting sagging gates. These were anchored near each end of each "L" girder. I used two plain 4" utility drawer handles to act as trusses, with the cable running under the recessed curve portion of the handles. I also got two extra turnbuckles, placing a turnbuckle near the cable end anchors. Then I drew up the turnbuckles to eliminate any sagging and draw the frame up straight.
The minimum clearance for my wife's Honda Civic was 51", so I set the layout height to clear the car by 2". It worked like a charm. I did have to get a piece of plastic tubing for a sleeve along one part of the cable, as the cable kept wanting to pull hair out of my head. The only other problem was that a couple of years later, she got an Accord, which was too high to go under. It took the other space in the garage and my car was put out on the street. The cable suspended leg of the layout served me flawlessly for eight years, until we moved last year.
So, don't let space throw your plans, go for it!

[Anonymous]

Here's one you might find interesting. It's a N Scale Chessie layout in South Africa that's built on a tubular frame suspended from a garage ceiling on pulleys : http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/grela/chessie02.html
The basic design should work just as well for HO.

[ehrliccf]

I had just that situation that Doc described: No room inside so the garage was the only place - two cars were the problem. I gave up on pulleys and went to a four bar linkage on both sides of the layout. When it is down, it sits on custom made sawhorses. The platform has 5 L-bar girders running across the 4 ft width and 2 L-bars running lengthwise (these sit on the sawhorses). To raise it, I use a lever underneath to pu***he layout up to the rafters then strap it with metal clips and clevis pins for earthquake safety. Works OK but you have to watch the height of any mountains and buildings to be sure they clear the rafters.

[Leon Silverman]

Spacemouse's idea is heading in the right direction. However, a 40" high (3' -4" ) platform would place your 6' platform at a height of only 32". Use 30" high standing platforms which are mounted on hinges so that you can rotate them out of the way to make room for your car when the you are not operating the trains.

[SpaceMouse]

IF you have a tall garage, what about building a 3-4' high platform to stand on and have your layout permanently at 6-8 ft?

[Anonymous]

These are fantastic thoughts and ideas. I think I may run to the local libraries and see if I can pick up that book for some thoughts as well. My thoughts are to have a base area of probably 4 by 8 (Shuffle an area in the garage) and maybe larger if I can design it right. But then to have expansion for the real fun be in this pulley system. Even maybe only being the turnaround area having to be on a pully. The reality is that I have a very tall garage and a raised area that should work for the 4 by 8. Then I could run a connected 2 by 8 module along the side of the garage and connect to this pully based turn around and helix (For expansion in height). But then for enjoyment and continued improvement, I will always have to work above ground.

Like the thoughts and ideas thoughs. One of the funnest part of this hobby is the concept and design phase.

[jeffers_mz]

Our 4x8 was originally designed to lift up and down underneath a bunkbed.

Because the bed would have killed most of the room we ended up supporting the layout on standard legs. Good thing too, the weight of the layout has grown to more than 200 pounds.

You'd want to make real sure your opully fasteners could handle the weight because if they fail, your layout and your cars will pay the price. Adding counterweights to the system will not increase the load on the ropes or cables, but it will double the weight on the pulley attachments.

A 2x4 or larger, laid flat across the top of the joists, with a 2x4 or 2x6 or even larger stood on edge beside it and nailed frequently together will spread the load across several joists. Bolts loaded in shear (cable at a right angle to the long axis of the bolt) will resist up to ten times as much as bolts loaded in tension (screwed up into the ceiling and hanging straight down.) In shear, you want the attachment as close to the point where threads meet wood as possible to avoid bending the bolt.

I have a sort of pullup bar mounted here, a pair of "rocks" hanging from the ceiling to work finger, arm and tendon strength for climbing, and each of the pair uses it's own 3/8" by 6" lag screw to hold it up. Increasing to half inch would't be a bad idea, but much over that and you have to worry about the size of the hole you're making and the integrity of the piece of wood you are screwing into. if you need more than a half inch lag screw can give you, then you need to look at multiple attachment points, several screws all sharing the load.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

Going back further, to a 60's book I have called "The Complete Book of Model Railroading" (NOT the 70's book of the same name by Robert Schleicher), there is a very nicely done large layout, unsureof the overall size - but there are tons of pictures of it, in a garage. Many pictures before you see the secret - that it is in 2 pieces and suspended from the ceiling when not in use!

--Randy

That's the book I saw it in!

[rrinker]

There was one in that era of MR that was in a basement, somewhere around 5x10 to 8x12 in size, with a pit in the middle.

Going back further, to a 60's book I have called "The Complete Book of Model Railroading" (NOT the 70's book of the same name by Robert Schleicher), there is a very nicely done large layout, unsureof the overall size - but there are tons of pictures of it, in a garage. Many pictures before you see the secret - that it is in 2 pieces and suspended from the ceiling when not in use!

--Randy

[ndbprr]

MR had one in the mid to late 70's that filled a two car garage. The owner attached several cables to coffee cans that could be adjusted with weight to even thing out. As I recall when lowered there were legs similar to a card table that held it for operating. Don;t remember the issue but the cover had a PRR 4-4-2 on the front.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I've seen the pulley idea used before, to good effect. I can't remember what book I read about it in though.

[tomikawaTT]

Key points in designing a cable-lift layout base:

1. The basic table must be RIGID! This is where engineered wood main beams, or even steel, will prove to be a worthwhile investment.

2. Rigging a cable system that lifts evenly will result in a cat's cradle of lines across the ceiling, but it will also prevent rolling stock from having misadventures as the layout is raised and lowered.

3. Counterbalance the hoist system - counterweights come down as the table goes up, and vice versa. Even with some mechanical advantage, a table that isn't counterbalanced will feel heavy to lift. Properly counterbalanced, it will feel like hoisting a bag of feathers. Add weight to the counterweights as the weight of the layout increases.

4. Take the weight off the cables in the fully lowered position. If the table is sitting solidly on legs or wall brackets, it will not move if somebody bumps it. If it is suspended from the overhead by 5-foot lengths of flexible cable, a bump in 1:1 scale will translate into 7.9 on the Richter scale in 1:87. (Wall brackets can be designed to fold flat when not needed to support the table.)

5. Design the main hoist cables to attach about 1/5 of the way in from the layout edges (3 feet in if the layout is 15 feet wide, 4 feet for 20 foot width) rather than right at the corners. This will minimize the stresses that cause sagging.

If the plan is to hoist a modular layout, the base frame should be designed as a simple support for the modules, and the modules should simply sit on the frame with just enough attachment points to keep them from moving - as few as four screws driven up from below should be adequate.

Chuck

[vsmith]

tried it once, kept it simple, only a 4x6, even then it was VERY unwieldy and HEAVY, difficult to pull up evenly. I eventually gave up and mounted it the a pair of sawhorses.

[cudaken]

I did it on a old HO Slot car track at the old house. It took two people to get it up. With a better pully system I could have done it by my self.

Make sure you over bulid the base! Mine was just 2X4 and did sag a little, but all that was on the board was carpet and track.

I would have done something like that with current track but never could figuer out how to get the cables to clear the garage door when it was up?

I have a blue print for a fold aginst the wall track if you like to see it.


Welcome and looking forward to some PIC

Cuda Ken

[ARTHILL]

I have a 5x9 workbench/assembly table suspended over the cars in my garage. I raise and lower it with an old boat trailer winch. It took a little doing and I was worried about fastening the pullies so they would not eventually come loose and drop it on the cars. I also worried a bit abot the weight so as not to over-strain the ceiling joists. The point is It can be done.

[rrinker]

There's also one in there designed to be suspended on cables from the ceiling. The problem with such things is that the layout must be designed with very sturdy benchwork so it doesn't flex when held by the cables alone. It's usually a good idea to have legs on the bottom to hold it up when in the loweed position. The other issue is building the cable and pulley system so it lifts equally all around. That or good teamwork to help raise and lower it.

--Randy

[SpaceMouse]

John Armstrong designed one to fold up into a wall. It was 4 x 8 with a short yard on a return. It is i Creative Layout PLans.

[ukguy]

ryno,,,, there were at least 3 good threads on this subject in the last 5 months try the search function in the upper left of your screen to find them, go to the advanced search, I will post the links tomorrow if there are no more posts here, would do it now but , I'm headed to bed , sorry, good luck , btw welcome to the forums. the answers are all here, be patient.

Have fun & be safe
Karl.

[Anonymous]

I am looking for some unique ideas for utilizing a track layout in my garage without taking up the garage. I am going to do a HO scale, and this will be my third layout. Moved back to NM and now am stable in our house. Unfortunately not a lot extra room with the family. I have an extra 4 by 6 area in the front of the garage that is raised and that I was going to start with, but I was going to either consider a raised area from here over the hood of my car, or a pulley system that attaches when I want to expand. The garage is really tall with a lot of storage built into it. Its not quite oversized, but not small either. Any thoughts or ideas. I am definately wanting to build this modular (Long term movable) as sometime next year or beyond, I hope to have enough $$ and time to build a nice workshop/hobby room in the yard.