WIRE SIZE

[Seamonster]

QUOTE: Does that ring a bell Seamonster Bob?

Oh, boy, does that ever, Johnny5! That's got me going back to the good old days. That said, I'm glad I'm not doing that any more.

QUOTE: Biggest telephone cable I ever saw was 22,000 pairs. About 3 feet in diameter. I would have hated to been that splicer. Most of the ones where I worked previously (18 yars ago) were 1500, 2200, and 4000 pairs.

Reminds me of what happened to the Telco in a small town I lived in. The main street in front of the dial office was about to be paved, so the Telco decided to move their ovehead cables from above the road to under the road while they could still dig a trench across it. They used one lead-sheathed cable under the road. I don't know how many pairs were in it, but it served about 3,000 subscribers, the entire town and outlying areas. Probably a 4,000 pair cable. It was special order. It took them weeks to terminate it without interrupting service, and I sure felt sorry for the poor guy that spent weeks in that little tent at the top of a pole! Anyway, shortly after the new cable was in and the old overhead cable removed, the road paving started. Wouldn't you know it, the road contractor dug up the new cable and severed it! The Telco couldn't get a replacement cable and had to splice in two 2,000 pair cables in its place. I heard a rumour that the road contractor went bankrupt after that job. I wonder why.

Memories, memories, memories~

[NeO6874]

QUOTE: Originally posted by johnny.5

Ok, anyone interested in some telephony 101?
Bob was talking about terminating 25 & 50 pair Cable on punch-on blocks (66 E blocks).
Cable Color Code is according to B.S.P. (Bell System Practice) and hasn't changed jn nearly 100 years.
There are 5 "RING" colors and 5 "TIP" colors.
RING colors- Blue, Orange, Green, Brown, Slate
TIP colors- White, Red, Black, Yellow, Violet. 5x5=25
Each 25 pr past the 1st 25 has a "BINDER" color wrapped around all 25 pair. again W-BL, W-O, W-G, W-BR, W-S. So W-BL binderBL-W pair is pair #1, W-SL binder V-S pair is pair #125, R-Bl binder W-BL #126 etc... W-S binder V-S pr is #250. Cables larger than that (like many running doen our streets) add a third binder color BL-W-BL, BL-W -O, BL -W- G, etc... to create any size cable. 1500 pair are common entering Central Offices, even large Office Buildings.
Does that ring a bell Seamonster Bob?
Ne06874, it has never changed, and Data wireing is the same as Voice.
The 4 Pair cable terminates the same, W-BL, W-O, W-G, W-BR. When you hold a 4 pr plug looking at the GOLD contacts,(yes they are 24 caret GOLD) with the contacts pointing away from you, the pin on the LEFT is pin 1, and the one on the RIGHT is pin 8.
Pins 1& 2 is W-O, Pin 3 is White of the Green, Pin 4 is BLue, Pin 5 is the White of the Blue, Pin 6 is Green of the W-GR, Pins 7 & 8 is W-BR,
The 4 pair Jack does the conversion for Voice or Data.
"Tip & Ring", Pair 1, BL-W comes out in the center of the jack (pins 4 & 5, so even a single line cord will get dial tone. W - Gr (split) Pins 3&6 is the 2nd pair out from center and is used for data pairs on all AT&T/Lucent/Avaya Business phones.
Data Networks use pairs O-W and GR-W Pins 1-2, 3 & 6, That is for protection so if you plug a phone into a Data jack or Data device into a Phone jack by mistake equipment won't get blown.
One more bit of trivia."TIP and RING" dates back to the Operator Cord-Board days when the operators conected all the calls by plugging the cord into the switch-board. The "Plug", looking much like a 1/4 mono headphone or microphone plug, the Point or "TIP" was the ground side of battery, and the "RING" was between 2 insulaters below the tip, (like a stereo plug) and was the Positive side of the battery. The Battery is a very large bank of 48 volt DC wet cells in the basement of the Central offices with generator back up, to keep the batteries charged. That's why your phone still works in a power failure.
I hope I didn't offend anyone with this long post, it probably doesn't belong on this forum, but I did want to let Ne06874 know that there is NO "blue/lt blue,green/lt green,orange/lt orange,brown/lt brown (in that order)... " in Phone wire.
John

i understand the order was wrong, w as listing off the (apparently incorrect) color pairs of the actual wire in CAT5e UTP cable (4 pairs of the colors i listed)... sorry to anyone i may have inadvertently confused.

[jecorbett]

Before I figured out I could use telephone wire for my switch machines, I used a 3 strand bell wire that was 18 gauge. It could be worked into the Atlas terminals but it wasn't easy. I wouldn't recommend that large wire for that application. Smaller is definitely better.

[jbinkley60]

Biggest telephone cable I ever saw was 22,000 pairs. About 3 feet in diameter. I would have hated to been that splicer. Most of the ones where I worked previously (18 yars ago) were 1500, 2200, and 4000 pairs.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jmac30

thanks guys The wire I have came from a"rewire" job yrs ago and it is all telephone hook-up wire and my guess is it's 22 or 24 ga.

thanks for input

Jim

Well, that's not really what you asked. If you want to know what size it is measure it with mics or good calipers and look it up on a size chart, like this one here. Fred

http://icrank.com/cgi-bin/pageman/pageout.cgi?path=/Gagesizechart.htm&t=2

[fwright]

Off topic: British cars that used Lucas (aka "Prince of Darkness") electrical systems often had positive grounds, through about 1963 anyway. Try using a British car (or motorcycle) from that era with Lucas electrics at night and you will know where the nickname came from. My MGA had 2 6 volt batteries in series with a positive ground. No starter solenoid, just a contact bar at the end of a choke cable. And a tube radio that couldn't be replaced because all the solid state radios are set up for negative ground. Had all kinds of fun setting up the lights to tow the MG across country on a move. Eventually totally disconnected the batteries and ran a new wire harness to the tow vehicle.

Those were the days, my friends, we thought they'd never end, we'd sing and dance forever and again...

[nedthomas]

More off subject info on telephone 101. Telephones systems are positive + earth or ground. Most electronic and automotive systems are negative - ground. This was to prevent electrolysis from eating the wire and connections away on early telephone and telegraph systems that used only one wire and the earth for the return. I remember installing two-way radios in trucks that were positive ground (1965 era).

[johnny.5]

Ok, anyone interested in some telephony 101?
Bob was talking about terminating 25 & 50 pair Cable on punch-on blocks (66 E blocks).
Cable Color Code is according to B.S.P. (Bell System Practice) and hasn't changed jn nearly 100 years.
There are 5 "RING" colors and 5 "TIP" colors.
RING colors- Blue, Orange, Green, Brown, Slate
TIP colors- White, Red, Black, Yellow, Violet. 5x5=25
Each 25 pr past the 1st 25 has a "BINDER" color wrapped around all 25 pair. again W-BL, W-O, W-G, W-BR, W-S. So W-BL binderBL-W pair is pair #1, W-SL binder V-S pair is pair #125, R-Bl binder W-BL #126 etc... W-S binder V-S pr is #250. Cables larger than that (like many running doen our streets) add a third binder color BL-W-BL, BL-W -O, BL -W- G, etc... to create any size cable. 1500 pair are common entering Central Offices, even large Office Buildings.
Does that ring a bell Seamonster Bob?
Ne06874, it has never changed, and Data wireing is the same as Voice.
The 4 Pair cable terminates the same, W-BL, W-O, W-G, W-BR. When you hold a 4 pr plug looking at the GOLD contacts,(yes they are 24 caret GOLD) with the contacts pointing away from you, the pin on the LEFT is pin 1, and the one on the RIGHT is pin 8.
Pins 1& 2 is W-O, Pin 3 is White of the Green, Pin 4 is BLue, Pin 5 is the White of the Blue, Pin 6 is Green of the W-GR, Pins 7 & 8 is W-BR,
The 4 pair Jack does the conversion for Voice or Data.
"Tip & Ring", Pair 1, BL-W comes out in the center of the jack (pins 4 & 5, so even a single line cord will get dial tone. W - Gr (split) Pins 3&6 is the 2nd pair out from center and is used for data pairs on all AT&T/Lucent/Avaya Business phones.
Data Networks use pairs O-W and GR-W Pins 1-2, 3 & 6, That is for protection so if you plug a phone into a Data jack or Data device into a Phone jack by mistake equipment won't get blown.
One more bit of trivia."TIP and RING" dates back to the Operator Cord-Board days when the operators conected all the calls by plugging the cord into the switch-board. The "Plug", looking much like a 1/4 mono headphone or microphone plug, the Point or "TIP" was the ground side of battery, and the "RING" was between 2 insulaters below the tip, (like a stereo plug) and was the Positive side of the battery. The Battery is a very large bank of 48 volt DC wet cells in the basement of the Central offices with generator back up, to keep the batteries charged. That's why your phone still works in a power failure.
I hope I didn't offend anyone with this long post, it probably doesn't belong on this forum, but I did want to let Ne06874 know that there is NO "blue/lt blue,green/lt green,orange/lt orange,brown/lt brown (in that order)... " in Phone wire.
John

[NeO6874]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Seamonster

John, you brought back some memories--some pleasant, some not so pleasant. I earned my living in the industrial communications field for many years, and I can still remember spending many hours terminating 50 and 100 pair communications cables with all the colour codes and colour groupings. I remember the blue group was always first, but I forget what the order was after that. Too many cables under the bridge. But, I enjoyed my job.

unless its changed (or is different for data networking) it's blue/lt blue,green/lt green,orange/lt orange,brown/lt brown (in that order)... theres probably more, but i only need to know the 4 pairs (and their orders) for CAT5e cable [;)]. granted you have to make a few modifications to that grouping to make it 586 A/B compliant... but thats another story...

[weinschenksk]

Can anyone tell me the gauge of the wire used with the rail joiners in N guage?

[Seamonster]

John, you brought back some memories--some pleasant, some not so pleasant. I earned my living in the industrial communications field for many years, and I can still remember spending many hours terminating 50 and 100 pair communications cables with all the colour codes and colour groupings. I remember the blue group was always first, but I forget what the order was after that. Too many cables under the bridge. But, I enjoyed my job.

[jmac77]

Wow Thanks John believe it or not that helps think my "pairs" etc are all 24 (maybr 22)
Very informative again THANKS

Jim

[johnny.5]

Jim;
I started with the Bell System in April 1968, (Retired in 2003) so here goes.
The older it is , the heavier it is, dark brown jacket, 3 wire (red, green, yellow)
pre 1950's, 20 gauge
1950's- early 1960's heavy gray jacket (thick) 3 or 4 wire (red, green, yellow, black), dull in color.
also 20 gauge. (General Wire & Cable also made a beige jacket)
Early 1960's, thiner gray jacket about 3/16 dia, 4 wire (2 pair) red, green, yellow, black, brighter in color, (shinny) 22 gauge.
Late 1960's, smaller gray jacket, about 1/8 dia, 4 wire (2 pair) red, green, yellow, black, brighter in color, (shinny) 22 gauge.
Early 1980's to present 4 PAIR (8 conducter) (BLUE-WHITE, OR- W, GREEN-W, BR-W) most everything now is 24 gauge.
Telephone cords (curly receiver cords, mounting cords) may be considered 28 gauge, but I doubt it, we call it tinsel wire it's not really gauged wire, it's like wrapped hair)
Pre 1960's wire, gray or beige catagory 1 barely any twist.
1960's to present residential 4 wire 2 PAIR JK, (JacKeted wire) catagory 3 some twists.
1980's to present 4 PAIR (8 conducter) catagory 5 more twists, available in different colored jackets.
2003 to present 4 PAIR (8 conducter) catagory 5e EVEN MORE twist available in different colored jackets, used for high speed data, cheeper than cat 5 or cat 3. I use it for everthing!
Then there is also 3 pair, 6 pair, 6 pair pre-wire (un jacketed, found in older apartment buildings), 12 pair, 16 pair, 25 pair 50, 75, & 100 pair.

So, there you have it, "Everything you NEVER wanted to know about telephone wire, but you DID ask!"
Hope that helps
John

[jmac77]

thanks guys The wire I have came from a"rewire" job yrs ago and it is all telephone hook-up wire and my guess is it's 22 or 24 ga.

thanks for input

Jim

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jmac30

Can someone tell me exactly what size BELL TELEPHONE (copper "pairs")

wire is?? Dunb question but I 've been told everything from 20 to 28 guage

over the yrs and I still have a ton of it (from some construction earlier in life)

that I would like to use Like to connect my own PM-42 as shown here earlier.

Thanks much

Jim

Use the 20 Min the others are a little to light gauge. The PM-42 picture was mine and if I did it again I would have used the #20 awg solid wire. I have since changed to the PSfour from Tony's for the other 12 districts in this phase. Easier to wire and easier to use.
Take Care
George P.

[Anonymous]

Depends, it's printed on the spool. It actually comes in all those sizes. Fred

[jmac77]

Can someone tell me exactly what size BELL TELEPHONE (copper "pairs")

wire is?? Dunb question but I 've been told everything from 20 to 28 guage

over the yrs and I still have a ton of it (from some construction earlier in life)

that I would like to use Like to connect my own PM-42 as shown here earlier.

Thanks much

Jim