MIXING EURO & US EQUIPMENT ON THE SAME LAY-OUT

[Anonymous]

Has anyone attempted a layout with both European and US type equipment running together, i.e., a Roco engine and cars with NEM couplers and Atlas diesels with Kadee's, plus intermixing turnouts, and uncouplers and power equipment. I have acquired some of both, and frankly don't want to give up any of them, but don't have the space for two seperate lay-outs. Any opinions?[?]

[Anonymous]

Has anyone attempted a layout with both European and US type equipment running together, i.e., a Roco engine and cars with NEM couplers and Atlas diesels with Kadee's, plus intermixing turnouts, and uncouplers and power equipment. I have acquired some of both, and frankly don't want to give up any of them, but don't have the space for two seperate lay-outs. Any opinions?[?]

[Anonymous]

How about a Tran-Alantic tunnel in the middle with US at one end and England at the other. Build an interchange yard in England. There are plans in the works for this actually.

[Anonymous]

How about a Tran-Alantic tunnel in the middle with US at one end and England at the other. Build an interchange yard in England. There are plans in the works for this actually.

[Anonymous]

appreciate the input, however, I have not been able to negotiate that much space for this lay-out from my wife...my attorney is still talking to her attorney, if you get my drift...

[Anonymous]

appreciate the input, however, I have not been able to negotiate that much space for this lay-out from my wife...my attorney is still talking to her attorney, if you get my drift...

[Anonymous]

Build some modules that you can connect together and can store somewhere and put it together when she is gone. My layout is all modules and is currently 40 feet long double track when fully assembled, but can be stacked in the corner in an 4X8 foot area.

[Anonymous]

Build some modules that you can connect together and can store somewhere and put it together when she is gone. My layout is all modules and is currently 40 feet long double track when fully assembled, but can be stacked in the corner in an 4X8 foot area.

[TothZoltan]

Hi,
If you get any worthwile responses regarding the coupler issue, please e-mail me @ [e-mail]. I face the same dillema.
I am modelling europene scenery and have eurpean engines and rolling stock along with a bunch of US stuff , where I don't want to give up the american stuff.

The way I do it now is basically, the europene engines haul europene cars and vise/versa. I have not modified any cars with Kadee on one end and NEM on the other. Also, I have not solved the problem of where to place magnets under the track vs the eu electroninc uncouplers. WHile on the subject, are you aware of any hand throw switches applicable for eastern europene railrods. There is a mall box on top of the switch machine and when you throw the lever it rotates.

Best Regars,

Zoltan Toth

[TothZoltan]

Hi,
If you get any worthwile responses regarding the coupler issue, please e-mail me @ [e-mail]. I face the same dillema.
I am modelling europene scenery and have eurpean engines and rolling stock along with a bunch of US stuff , where I don't want to give up the american stuff.

The way I do it now is basically, the europene engines haul europene cars and vise/versa. I have not modified any cars with Kadee on one end and NEM on the other. Also, I have not solved the problem of where to place magnets under the track vs the eu electroninc uncouplers. WHile on the subject, are you aware of any hand throw switches applicable for eastern europene railrods. There is a mall box on top of the switch machine and when you throw the lever it rotates.

Best Regars,

Zoltan Toth

[Anonymous]

If you do, I would suggest to install Kadee couplers on the European equipment. Recent European equipment has normalised NEM coupler shafts. Just buy Kadee NEM-couplers which fit into these shafts and you are ready to go. Older European equipment can be converted to Kadee couplers. A few years ago I modified very easily an early ROCO diesel locomotive (the German BR215). I removed the Märklin-style coupler, filed the underside of the chassis in the coupler area flat and shimmed Kadee #5's in place. It works like a charm.
I do not recommend to put one of the European style couplers onto American equipment: it takes a lot more work and why switch to an inferior system? In my humble opinion, our high-tech close coupling devices were never designed for operations but only to make passenger trains running in circles (a favorite European pastime) look more realistic.

I do prefer freelancing, but I would never go so far as to mix European and American equipment on a single layout. What you can do is to design your layout in the most generic way possible (no Rocky Mountains, Tehachapi or Horseshoe Curve for instance) and use interchangeable structures. This way you can have a European layout with European equipment during one session, and a US layout with US equipment during another session. Watch out for differences in private property, railroad structures (station buildings, depots etc.), trucks, cars and trafic lights. Modern industrial property looks exactly the same on both sides of the Atlantic.

You may have guessed that I was faced with the same problem as you. During business trips to the US I started looking for construction kits of modern industry buildings but I ended up with almost enough US equipment for a second layout.

I use code 100 trackwork and I have good experiences with RP25 wheelsets on this track. I must admit however that I only installed simple large radius turnouts, no fancy things like double slip switches and the like.

If you need more info, contact me via e-mail.

[Anonymous]

If you do, I would suggest to install Kadee couplers on the European equipment. Recent European equipment has normalised NEM coupler shafts. Just buy Kadee NEM-couplers which fit into these shafts and you are ready to go. Older European equipment can be converted to Kadee couplers. A few years ago I modified very easily an early ROCO diesel locomotive (the German BR215). I removed the Märklin-style coupler, filed the underside of the chassis in the coupler area flat and shimmed Kadee #5's in place. It works like a charm.
I do not recommend to put one of the European style couplers onto American equipment: it takes a lot more work and why switch to an inferior system? In my humble opinion, our high-tech close coupling devices were never designed for operations but only to make passenger trains running in circles (a favorite European pastime) look more realistic.

I do prefer freelancing, but I would never go so far as to mix European and American equipment on a single layout. What you can do is to design your layout in the most generic way possible (no Rocky Mountains, Tehachapi or Horseshoe Curve for instance) and use interchangeable structures. This way you can have a European layout with European equipment during one session, and a US layout with US equipment during another session. Watch out for differences in private property, railroad structures (station buildings, depots etc.), trucks, cars and trafic lights. Modern industrial property looks exactly the same on both sides of the Atlantic.

You may have guessed that I was faced with the same problem as you. During business trips to the US I started looking for construction kits of modern industry buildings but I ended up with almost enough US equipment for a second layout.

I use code 100 trackwork and I have good experiences with RP25 wheelsets on this track. I must admit however that I only installed simple large radius turnouts, no fancy things like double slip switches and the like.

If you need more info, contact me via e-mail.

[Anonymous]

Another possible solution is to imagine that you are modelling a railroad in some other country, like perhaps Iceland or South America, and suppose that whatevre country this is, it has acquired all of its stock from the best bidder, be they American or European. You might even create a wholly fictional island nation, perhaps Atlantis, and have fun weaving it into the history of railroads.

I know that some foreign power is actually produced by EMD or GE (I'm thinking of deisels) and thus exhibits a lot of similar characteristics; with research and the willingness to kitbash, you might be able to convert your American equipment.

[Anonymous]

Another possible solution is to imagine that you are modelling a railroad in some other country, like perhaps Iceland or South America, and suppose that whatevre country this is, it has acquired all of its stock from the best bidder, be they American or European. You might even create a wholly fictional island nation, perhaps Atlantis, and have fun weaving it into the history of railroads.

I know that some foreign power is actually produced by EMD or GE (I'm thinking of deisels) and thus exhibits a lot of similar characteristics; with research and the willingness to kitbash, you might be able to convert your American equipment.

[fischey]

Hello Chester. I could go on about this but will try to limit my response to a novelette.

First: f you want to do electric overhead catenary be wary of clearances. Tall US equipment will not fit under the wire. If this is not an issue, then:

All of the advice you have seen is very good. I have a little more.

Second: Couplers: if you want to mix and match, I recommend like another poster did, to use Kadee NEM couplers which will snap into your Roco stock lickety-split. If this is not an issue, no worry. But remember, the Kadee magnetic uncoupling system is worth a look.

Third: Track: Code 83 is fine. Walthers, Atlas, you name it. However, if Uncle Bob gave you an old European train with pizza-cutter flanges, go Peco or Tillig Code 100 if you just have to run it. If it is just rolling stock and not a loco, change out the wheels with Roco. Switches are the issue. Tillig is great at Code 83 for almost all older Euro stock, save for the very oldest Fleischmann and Marklin/Hamo. General rule of thumb, if it is pre-1980 on these brands, then it will have to be Code 100.

Fourth: There are switch throw prototype models available in German-Austrian prototype from Weinert. They are expensive but do hook up to switch motors or layout throws. They can light up. They are delicate and beautiful. They can be frustrating. Fudge. You will be glad you did.

Fifth: Some station architecure in the Eastern US can pass for Euro, if you squint. The comments about generic appearance here are accurate, however, if you like Sweden or Norway you can pretend it's also Canada, right down to some wooden depots and residences. Use the internet for images and check out some Scandinavian sites. Don't worry about language problems, it's all readily translated by looking at pictures.

Sixth: Lithuania is using US diesel equipment right now, Ex-EMD and GE. Russian equipment is very US in style, including AAR and Archbar trucks and knuckle couplers. If you want to honor US stuff being used in Western Europe, Portugal and Spain used Alco RS's extensively and some GE. A 44 tonner or two wouldn't hurt. Roco even had a US Army 44 Tonner with buffers, check E-bay. Don't worry about prototype guage. Don't forget too, that one of Sweden's private railways repainted a GM-NOHAB loco to look like a Great Northern Empire Builder F7 for a movie-- last I heard, it's stil in GN colors.

Seventh: Look out for the Euro Bug. You can get bitten hard. It's fun though. Check out ETE.org on the web.

Last: Ignore what others say about funky-- it's your railroad. Enjoy!!

[fischey]

Hello Chester. I could go on about this but will try to limit my response to a novelette.

First: f you want to do electric overhead catenary be wary of clearances. Tall US equipment will not fit under the wire. If this is not an issue, then:

All of the advice you have seen is very good. I have a little more.

Second: Couplers: if you want to mix and match, I recommend like another poster did, to use Kadee NEM couplers which will snap into your Roco stock lickety-split. If this is not an issue, no worry. But remember, the Kadee magnetic uncoupling system is worth a look.

Third: Track: Code 83 is fine. Walthers, Atlas, you name it. However, if Uncle Bob gave you an old European train with pizza-cutter flanges, go Peco or Tillig Code 100 if you just have to run it. If it is just rolling stock and not a loco, change out the wheels with Roco. Switches are the issue. Tillig is great at Code 83 for almost all older Euro stock, save for the very oldest Fleischmann and Marklin/Hamo. General rule of thumb, if it is pre-1980 on these brands, then it will have to be Code 100.

Fourth: There are switch throw prototype models available in German-Austrian prototype from Weinert. They are expensive but do hook up to switch motors or layout throws. They can light up. They are delicate and beautiful. They can be frustrating. Fudge. You will be glad you did.

Fifth: Some station architecure in the Eastern US can pass for Euro, if you squint. The comments about generic appearance here are accurate, however, if you like Sweden or Norway you can pretend it's also Canada, right down to some wooden depots and residences. Use the internet for images and check out some Scandinavian sites. Don't worry about language problems, it's all readily translated by looking at pictures.

Sixth: Lithuania is using US diesel equipment right now, Ex-EMD and GE. Russian equipment is very US in style, including AAR and Archbar trucks and knuckle couplers. If you want to honor US stuff being used in Western Europe, Portugal and Spain used Alco RS's extensively and some GE. A 44 tonner or two wouldn't hurt. Roco even had a US Army 44 Tonner with buffers, check E-bay. Don't worry about prototype guage. Don't forget too, that one of Sweden's private railways repainted a GM-NOHAB loco to look like a Great Northern Empire Builder F7 for a movie-- last I heard, it's stil in GN colors.

Seventh: Look out for the Euro Bug. You can get bitten hard. It's fun though. Check out ETE.org on the web.

Last: Ignore what others say about funky-- it's your railroad. Enjoy!!

[BR60103]

If you don't want to mix the equipment in the same train, just leave the couplings alone and run whole trains.
You could have European scenery on one side of the layout and American on the other, possibly with a wall down the middle.

[BR60103]

If you don't want to mix the equipment in the same train, just leave the couplings alone and run whole trains.
You could have European scenery on one side of the layout and American on the other, possibly with a wall down the middle.

[Anonymous]

This is exactly what I will do, too. Mixing trains seems not a good idea, , it looks very strange. The best thing will be to have "euroean sessions" and "american sessions", both using the same scenery. Some degree of compromise is necessary, but using rather "neutral" scenery will help. I will have a removable american town which can be replaced by "something european" in the future.
For me this was the reason to model the PRR instaed of a western road with arid scenery.

Hva fun, Christoph

[Anonymous]

This is exactly what I will do, too. Mixing trains seems not a good idea, , it looks very strange. The best thing will be to have "euroean sessions" and "american sessions", both using the same scenery. Some degree of compromise is necessary, but using rather "neutral" scenery will help. I will have a removable american town which can be replaced by "something european" in the future.
For me this was the reason to model the PRR instaed of a western road with arid scenery.

Hva fun, Christoph

[cbq9911a]

I've mixed European, British, and American equipment on my layout. I use adapter cars which have a European coupler on one end and a Kadee on the other.

I've run some interesting combinations, like a Swiss Krocodil pulling the Nebraska Zephyr "Train of the Goddesses". Or an ABA set of F units pulling a set of European beer reefers.

[cbq9911a]

I've mixed European, British, and American equipment on my layout. I use adapter cars which have a European coupler on one end and a Kadee on the other.

I've run some interesting combinations, like a Swiss Krocodil pulling the Nebraska Zephyr "Train of the Goddesses". Or an ABA set of F units pulling a set of European beer reefers.

[Anonymous]

Chester,

I had a large Marklin layout that utilized American freight cars and Marklin 3 rail locos. I'm not sure if my experiences would apply to your situation but I do have a few observations.

The problem will be with the NEM standard (or NMRA). The wheel set width is slightly narrower than the NMRA standard. This will cause some grief when trying to run rp 25 standard wheelsets through the diverging track on turnouts. I solved this problem by narrowing my NMRA Wheelsets slightly, shimming guard rails on turnouts and using 2271 moveable frog turnouts. Perhaps other manufacturer's switches will have tolerances that are more friendly to American gear. I made many cars with a Marklin coupler on one end and a kadee on the other. They worked fine unless one is switching and needs to be able to couple to both ends of the loco. I wasn't able to run american locos because of the three rail issues.

Ultimately this arrangement was an enormous amount of work and still didn't run as well as I would have liked...I have torn it all up and Started over will all 2 rail DC stuff (US prototype). I did have some odd trian combos: Crocodile pulling reefer cars. Classs 24 Steam pulling YV log cars, Norweigian Electrics pulling 10K tank cars etc....

As for those who would protest that such things are not realistic, I would say that everyone has to decide for themselves how far down that road they want to go....There will always be something to find fault with on even the most prototypically accurate railroad...

I would be happy to share my experiences in more detail if you are interested. Email me at [e-mail]

Guy Cantwell

[Anonymous]

Chester,

I had a large Marklin layout that utilized American freight cars and Marklin 3 rail locos. I'm not sure if my experiences would apply to your situation but I do have a few observations.

The problem will be with the NEM standard (or NMRA). The wheel set width is slightly narrower than the NMRA standard. This will cause some grief when trying to run rp 25 standard wheelsets through the diverging track on turnouts. I solved this problem by narrowing my NMRA Wheelsets slightly, shimming guard rails on turnouts and using 2271 moveable frog turnouts. Perhaps other manufacturer's switches will have tolerances that are more friendly to American gear. I made many cars with a Marklin coupler on one end and a kadee on the other. They worked fine unless one is switching and needs to be able to couple to both ends of the loco. I wasn't able to run american locos because of the three rail issues.

Ultimately this arrangement was an enormous amount of work and still didn't run as well as I would have liked...I have torn it all up and Started over will all 2 rail DC stuff (US prototype). I did have some odd trian combos: Crocodile pulling reefer cars. Classs 24 Steam pulling YV log cars, Norweigian Electrics pulling 10K tank cars etc....

As for those who would protest that such things are not realistic, I would say that everyone has to decide for themselves how far down that road they want to go....There will always be something to find fault with on even the most prototypically accurate railroad...

I would be happy to share my experiences in more detail if you are interested. Email me at [e-mail]

Guy Cantwell

[Anonymous]

i Have some Battery operated HO scale train sets that have euro loco's and american cars or vice versa you can see the manufacturers site at www.new-ray.com
Note the trains in the photo's in the site are G gage but the Ho sets look nearly the same

I think you should Just buy the couplers on the American trains and youll jujst have one type of coupler

[Anonymous]

i Have some Battery operated HO scale train sets that have euro loco's and american cars or vice versa you can see the manufacturers site at www.new-ray.com
Note the trains in the photo's in the site are G gage but the Ho sets look nearly the same

I think you should Just buy the couplers on the American trains and youll jujst have one type of coupler

[Anonymous]

In Greece it was also usuall to see both American and European locos as ALCOs, MLWs, German class V60 and V200 locos etc...

[Anonymous]

In Greece it was also usuall to see both American and European locos as ALCOs, MLWs, German class V60 and V200 locos etc...

[Anonymous]

thanks to all of you for your input- I have decided for now to run both types, either together at once as individual units, or by themselves and just pretend it's either a Euro layout or a US layout. The other option is to sell off all of the US equipment, because I really do like the EURO equipment...ebay here I come...so far none of the EURO equipment has given me any problems running through a test track and mixed turnouts(Atlas & PECO)...once again ROCO makes a nice engine...

[Anonymous]

thanks to all of you for your input- I have decided for now to run both types, either together at once as individual units, or by themselves and just pretend it's either a Euro layout or a US layout. The other option is to sell off all of the US equipment, because I really do like the EURO equipment...ebay here I come...so far none of the EURO equipment has given me any problems running through a test track and mixed turnouts(Atlas & PECO)...once again ROCO makes a nice engine...