Ready to start, but you've all scared me a little bit

[Anonymous]

Ok, I'm ready to start building my N scale layout. I've got the space set aside, the benchwork planned, the Unitrak trackplan set out, and (most importantly) the wife has given the two thumbs up.

I've been reading the magazines, books, and these boards for months and I thought I was ready to go. But just as I was 95% sure that I was just going to start with DCC from the beginning at buy the Digitrax Zephyr I began to have cold feet. I think that this is a result primarily of information overload, I've gone to Tony's Trains and wiringfordcc.com and I think that they've just confused me. I'm hoping that you guys can talk me down from the ledge so that I can get going.

First, decoders. How friendly are "DCC friendly" locos? For instance, Kato's new F40PH - can a beginner realistically hope to install a decoder in that without becoming hopelessly frustrated?

And then there's talk of dcc friendly versus non-dcc friendly? I've read the sections on this on wiringfordcc.com and I've confused. Kato claims that it's N scale Unitrak is DCC friendly while wiringfordcc.com claims that the No. 6 turnouts (which I plan to use several of) are not dcc friendly. Which is accurate? What happens if something is not DCC friendly? Is there a work around?

Is it hard to use decoders with Unitrak turnouts? Is it worth buying decoders or should I just plan on operating them normally?

I've read Tony's primer about auto reversing sections, but really don't understand what I need to do with the boosters and the auto reversers? Are these difficult to install and handle?

I appreciate the help. I have a feeling that I'm making this more difficult than I need to, but I just need someone to tell me that.

[Anonymous]

Methinks you are indeed in information overload. I know squat about N scale, I'll allow the pros to handle that. DCC ready locos are setup to accept a drop in decoder, no probs there as long as you get a decoder for N scale (size does matter). Getting the shell off the loco, different story, there again, I'll leave that to the pros.

Unless you have a gi-normous layout, I dont think a booster will be required. Just make sure of distances from the controller are within spec, and don't run 199 trains at once. The auto reverser is only required if you track plan enables a train to loop back or in anyway change direction ( going forwards eastbound, then have loop or wye to make it go westbound on the same piece of track ). Not really all that confusing, but wherever you can loop back, you will need an auto reverser. Hope that clears up the muddy water a little bit.

If you have never run with DCC before, you are truly missing out. Find your local MRR club and check them out. Huge pool of information there. Now back away from the ledge....

Glenn

[davekelly]

hoosierdad,

I've been in this hobby for 30 or so years and even now there are times when I am hit big time with information overload. I've found the best thing is to just go for it!! Unlike when I just started, newbies, and oldbies, have this forum. If you have any questions while moving ahead, just post it - I am constantly amazed by the number of responses a question will get.

While I know we are all sometimes scared about making a mistake - I am reminded of something I always tell my 12 year old "a person that never made a single mistake - most likely never tried anything new."

GO FOR IT!!!

[rolleiman]

It's just train day jitters (so to speak) and yes, information overload.. First off, forget about when websites and manufacturers say a turnout is "dcc friendly". Instead, learn what a DCC friendly turnout is and make your own assessment.. In short, a DCC friendly turnout is the same as a DC friendly turnout. Continuous power throughout without any shorts being created when the turnout points are moved (the parts that select the route). I have zero knowlage of the kato unitrack system but the conflict may be due to aged information on either website.. The biggest thing to make sure of as you lay your track and wire it is that you don't create any short circuits. If in doubt, turn off the computer, get out a piece of paper, and a couple colored pens, markers, crayons, pencils, etc and draw a track diagram like this one for your application..

[image]http://www.rolleiman.com/trains/double.jpg[/image]

Wherever you see the two colors cross, should be isolated to prevent short circuits. One thing to note here, make sure you use the recommended level of power for your DCC station.. Using one that supplies less may not allow the short circuit protection to operate properly.


Ease of installing decoders is going to depend on the loco. As already mentioned, in N scale (sometimes in HO too) Size does matter. DCC ready locos usually have a plug that can be removed and a decoder installed in it's place. With N scale you may be replacing the entire circuit board (but still just as simple). There Should be space for the decoder and for most modern applications, a place like Tonys will have what you need. I'm going to issue one friendly warning here.. The term DCC Ready implies that the motor brushes are isolated from the track pickup.. I really wish people would forget the phrase "isolated from the frame" because it is misleading. DCC ready also implies that the lighting circuit is ready to go.. NOT ALWAYS THE CASE.. If in doubt, make sure by asking either the manufacturer, someone who has done a similar install, or simply reading the loco instructions (sometimes it does help, other times not).. Overdriving a lighting circuit Can blow the decoder or at the very least, the lighting output. Once you get past your first one though, it'll become pretty simple to you.

Personally, unless going completely computer operated, I wouldn't bother with DCC driven turnout control. The depth you sink into how much DCC your layout uses is strictly up to you but for now, I would just concentrate on getting the trains running. All that other gizmo garbage can be added later as time, money, and interest permit.

As for auto reversing modules, most of them are drop in installs. The booster and command station in most cases nowdays are in the same box. Wasn't always the case but is now.. At least with Digitrax it is. Unless, as already mentioned, you intend on actually running 100 trains, your single stand alone zephyr and an add on throttle or two will handle you just fine. If you don't actually have reversing loops, there's no need to mess with auto reversing units.. Even then, there are manual ways around the problem.

More info overload, I know.. Just take it in steps.. You'll soon be an expert.

Good luck,
Jeff

[claycts]

Jeff, GREAT input !!!

[simon1966]

Hoosierdad, I feel for you because DCC jargon and terminology can be daunting.

A few questions about your plans as this may be of help in aiming you in the correct direction.

How big is the layout you are planning? How many locos are you planning to run simultaneously? How complex is the track plan?

If you were going to run this as a DC layout beyond hooking up a powerpack at one location what more would you be doing in terms of block wiring etc?

I just took a look at your first post to the list and see that you are considering a layout using two of the Kato track kits. This will be a nice simple design and will make the hook up trivial.

If I were you, I would get the track sets, configure a plan on the bench work, hook up the 2 power wires from the Zephyr to the track and enjoy! Since you are planning to use Unitrack you can reconfigure the track as you desire until you are ready to comit to a more permanent layout. I would get a couple of extra straight bits, to make a programming track for the Zephyr as this is a really nice feature of the system. I can not see any reason why the Kato unitrack would be a problem with DCC. Kato even stresses the DCC compatibility of the stuff, so no worries on that score.

As for DCC installation. Digitrax and TCS plus others I am sure make lightboard replacement decoders for Atlas and other brands. These would not be too difficult to install.

In a few weeks you will be wondering why you were even concerned!!

[dickencr]

You have obviously planed and thought and read and planed and thought and read, ad infinitum, and nauseam, and you are ready for the next MAJOR step. The actual doing! You are indeed suffering from information overload. I see this in my professional clients al the time. In fact I have the same problem when facing a new prpoject.

Your next step is to take the leap of faith and just start! The fine folks of this forum are here to help you through any and all questions. They even answer my questions.

Nike said it best, as did several folks on this forum… JUST DO IT!

As for the DCC questions… unless you are working with a simple circle of track (I would guess that your plan is a bit more complex) you are still several weeks from requiring guidance and decisions about the final products. Just start where you know you should and have some fun.

Give your self permission to have some fun, experiment, and above all make a few misteaks. Making mistakes is part of learning, but making the same mistakes is part of a learning deficiency.

“Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several thousand things that won't work.
Thomas Edison

AND…

“Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.”
Thomas A. Edison

Enough Rah, Rah… Go Build a railroad!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by hoosierdad

...And then there's talk of dcc friendly versus non-dcc friendly? I've read the sections on this on wiringfordcc.com and I've confused. Kato claims that it's N scale Unitrak is DCC friendly while wiringfordcc.com claims that the No. 6 turnouts (which I plan to use several of) are not dcc friendly. Which is accurate? What happens if something is not DCC friendly? Is there a work around?...

The simple answer when it comes to DCC friendly turnouts is: Try it out first!
No one here will be able to give you the answer if your turnouts/engines
configuration will work under DCC without problems. Sorry, but I've been there.

Here's what I think you should do:
Put a couple of turnouts with some track up on your bench, hook it up to your DCC
system and run some engines to see what happens.
(If you don't have a DCC system or DCC engines yet - get them. You're gonna have to anyways and you should be fine with whatever you choose as far as that goes.)

If everything runs smooth - start laying track!
If you find that engines are stalling or shortening out, you'll have to take a closer look at your turnouts. Maybe they aren't so DCC friendly afterall.

So, just try it out first. That'll tell you for sure.

[tangerine-jack]

Don't think too much on it, just start building and learn from there. You can plan forever and never end up building anything. If it don't work like you want, you can always change it later!

[ARTHILL]

The best way to learn is to do it, learn and do it better. This sport allows you to enjoy your practice pieces. As time goes on you change things anyway. Get started and you will have something to change as you learn.

[waltersrails]

go with what you fell.