Layout room heating. Is this practical?

[Anonymous]

My train room is a newly finished basement addition that is heated by two electric baseboard heaters each 6 feet long. I am leaning toward an around the wall design with a peninsula but now I am concerned the bench work will cut off the air flow from the heaters.



The red is the location of the baseboard units. Does anyone have any real world experience with this?

[MisterBeasley]

Assuming that the baseboard heaters are down near the floor, and the layout height is as least waist-level, this should not be a problem. You should, of course, not build cabinets or under-layout shelving above the baseboards. Let them have free airflow both above and below the heaters.

As drawn, your layout may actually improve the heating characteristics of the room. Heat rising from the baseboards will be directed outward from the wall towards the center of the room, which is where you want it.

[tangerine-jack]

I don't see any real problems with your design provided you have enough airflow to and from the heaters. I would suggest a baffle of some kind to direct the heat toward the center of the room so it does not pool up so much under the layout and cause expansion/contraction problems directly over the heater. A simple angled sheet of masonite or something should do the trick.

I've seen these heat/cool expansion issues on my garden layout where the sun shines on one part of it in the morning and the track flexes as much as 2" in that area only(naturaly this is within tolerance). I don't expect that 2" of expansion is built into your design[;)]

[Anonymous]

I actually had a similar problem, that I wasn't sure how it would affect the heating/cooling in the room. My layout is around the walls, very similar to yours, but it's located in a finished bonus room above the garage. It has two a/c vents, and one large return. One vent is ceiling mounted, on the far side of the room from the return, and the other vent is on the same wall as the return vent, about 1.5 feet from the floor. My layout height is apprx 40 inches, and I was really worried that it would severely block the airflow in the room. I installed a ceiling fan for safe measure, but I really haven't needed to use it except in the dead of summer (Georgia summers can get pretty hot, and the fan helps circulate the air throughout the room). In the winter, the heat does seem to stay nearer the floor, and is very comfortable to work in the room.

[selector]

I agree. Leave a clearance aperture in front of the heaters and the rising air will be deflected by the bench and move outward. So, place nothing in front of the heaters, except for maybe a shallow fascia. Let the air come in along the floor toward the element and let it flow back out skimming the nether surface of your bench.

A better solution, if you could manage it at all without compromising your plan overmuch, is to cut a 2" slot in the rear of the bench directly over the heater, and allow some hot air to escape up through it. It needn't be the full length of the heater; maybe just 2/3 of the width if that will save a track for you.

Just my 2 cents.

[ramoutandabout]

i think i would invest in a couple ceiling fans myself , you can run them in an upward or downward direction

[lesterperry]

I purchased a small 6" fan and hung it under my layout in fornt of my heater which just happens to have a window A/C unit in the wall above it. When i am going to run trains I turn the heat up and turn on the fan in the winter and turn on the A/C and turn on the fan in the summer. I do this about 2 hours before I run. I keep temp in winter around 40 degrees and in the summer HOT.

[cacole]

One ceiling fan mounted in the center of the room with the blades rotating in the direction that blows air upward, running at its slowest speed, should create enough air circulation to suck the hot air from under the layout and spread it throughout the room. If you plan to put a skirting around the layout, you must leave gaps for air circulation.

[grayfox1119]

Our house was built originally with electric heaters. We switched to forced hot water when electric rates got rediculous in 1996. But for small added rooms, electric heaters are quick to install, and nearly 100% efficient, quiet, and never fail unless abused. Ours were all working great after 30 years of use. Now for your concern. As we all know, heat rises towards the ceiling, and you do not want to restrict that flow because it leads to hot spots and cold spots in a room. If you have a train table sitting over the top of the heater, the only way the heat can rise is to flow up under the bottom of the train table, and then flow outward towards the open area to where it can freely rise to the ceiling in a curling motion. I have tested this with smoke sticks. It is not recommended that you cover these heaters with your tables, as you will be restricting the flow of heat considerably. You could use a ceiling electric heater up in one corner, that uses a blower to direct the heat downward with adjustable fins, or, use your planned floor heaters, but on open walls with nothing above them. Or, pull your table back about 4" from the wall/s to allow for heat to rise properly.
I faced the very same problem two years ago when we added on to our basement, and I am using the 12.5X 27 space for my train layout. This room is just off our utility room in which the oil fired furnace is located. I found that the heat from the boiler is sufficient to keep the train room above 65 degrees even when the outside temp dropped to -10F last January. I do not have any heaters in the train room. I realize that your situation may be completely different, with no heat supply nearby.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. When this addition was put on by a previous owner they did nothing to add to the gas forced air heating system. Upstairs it works. there is plenty of air exchange with the original part of the house and a vaulted ceiling with a fan just in case.

The train room is always cool in the summer but until we finished it and added the electric heaters the entire basement stayed cold in the winter. Now the electric heaters add enough that the entire basement is comfortable. The ceiling is to low for a fan in there. It was a few inches less than 8 feet before we had it drywalled and we still need to do something for the floor.

Pulling away from the wall with the staging should be easy I can just shorten the straight track in "Bethel". The second wall I think if I can leave a 2 inch gap plus open up the bench work behind the curves, maybe bringing the backdrop close the track.

If all that fails I can put in some computer fans to get the air moving. I am glad everyone thinks this will work. At least that the heat will work.

[fwright]

One other caution I didn't see listed is that the heaters will probably induce very low humidity/moisture content in the layout lumber when it gets warm/dried during the winter. If you are not air conditioning during the summer, the humidity will likely be much higher. Your wood will swell during the summer and shrink during the winter, possibly causing the track to shift with it.

Painting (all sides) of your lumber will help slow the moisture migration into/out of the wood, as well controlling the humidity during the summer with either air conditioning or a dehumidifier.

Lastly, beware of static electricity buildup in the winter when humidity is low - especially if you have rugs or carpet.

yours in environmental action
Fred Wright

[grayfox1119]

Ahhhh, you mentioned that you need to do something about/with the floor.!!! If you need to build a floor, or lay cement, you might want to consider RADIANT floor heat. This works terrific for basment floors. Check this out if this can work for you.
People have mentioned humidity or lack of....and rightly so. Buy a humidity gauge and hang it on the wall in the train room. You will want to maintain room humidity at between 45 and 55%. This may require you to purchase a dehumidifier for summer humidity, and a humidifier for dry winter months.
Painting all surfaces exposed to the air is a very goo practice for any room that cannot maintain humidity between 45% and 55%.

[Leon Silverman]

Your track does not hug the edge of your layout above the entire baseboard heater length. If the edges of your layout hugged the track instead of the wall, you wlould be creating natural vents which would allow the air to circulate naturally instead of building up under the layout.
I had a computor room with no return vent that I kept closed in order to prevent the cats from playing around the computor. I then obtained an anwoir for the computor which enabled me to leave the room door open at all times. I intentionally cut the room door to encourage leakage aound the door for ventialtion. However, leaving the door open made a significant change in the comfort of the room. "Ventilating" your layout will give your better heat distribution without the cost or noise of fans.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fwright

One other caution I didn't see listed is that the heaters will probably induce very low humidity/moisture content in the layout lumber when it gets warm/dried during the winter. If you are not air conditioning during the summer, the humidity will likely be much higher. Your wood will swell during the summer and shrink during the winter, possibly causing the track to shift with it.

Painting (all sides) of your lumber will help slow the moisture migration into/out of the wood, as well controlling the humidity during the summer with either air conditioning or a dehumidifier.

Lastly, beware of static electricity buildup in the winter when humidity is low - especially if you have rugs or carpet.

yours in environmental action
Fred Wright

OK. Paint all of the wood, all sides. I had enough expansion problems with the Homosote I used for sub-road bed. I don't want to have to deal with that again.

The main furnace has a humidifier and the house is air conditioned in the summer but I had not considered if the air exchange with the rest of the house will maintain the humidity in that room. Since it never stayed warm enough in the winter I have to guess that the humidity will not be controlled as well as it should be.

Static electricity is another issue I had not considered. I see a grounding strap next the the DCC controller and on the work bench. So far I have never fried an electronics.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grayfox1119

Ahhhh, you mentioned that you need to do something about/with the floor.!!! If you need to build a floor, or lay cement, you might want to consider RADIANT floor heat. This works terrific for basment floors. Check this out if this can work for you.
People have mentioned humidity or lack of....and rightly so. Buy a humidity gauge and hang it on the wall in the train room. You will want to maintain room humidity at between 45 and 55%. This may require you to purchase a dehumidifier for summer humidity, and a humidifier for dry winter months.
Painting all surfaces exposed to the air is a very goo practice for any room that cannot maintain humidity between 45% and 55%.

Radiant heat was what I wanted to install but after talking to a few contractors we decided it would have to big an impact on the ceiling hight. At that time I wanted the radiant heat finished off with tile and my wife wanted carpet and the electric heaters.

Now she still wants the carpet and I want anything except carpet. If nothing else I will paint the concrete and call it a compromise.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Leon Silverman

Your track does not hug the edge of your layout above the entire baseboard heater length. If the edges of your layout hugged the track instead of the wall, you wlould be creating natural vents which would allow the air to circulate naturally instead of building up under the layout.
I had a computor room with no return vent that I kept closed in order to prevent the cats from playing around the computor. I then obtained an anwoir for the computor which enabled me to leave the room door open at all times. I intentionally cut the room door to encourage leakage aound the door for ventialtion. However, leaving the door open made a significant change in the comfort of the room. "Ventilating" your layout will give your better heat distribution without the cost or noise of fans.

I think the area behind the track near the peninsula is a prime candidate for ventilating. On he other wall it is just so easy to move the entire layout away from the wall to provide air space, my wife frowns on attaching anything permanently to the wall so the layout will be free standing anyway.

[waltersrails]

you should have enough heat but to be safe add an other. i had to add an other for mine beacuse of a wall put up in the garage.