City Layout- making it real!

[Anonymous]

I know! this is asked in the few other's i posted, but this is more for just that.

( i'm kind'a cheap w/o money for book's! )



Plus i'm still designing the layout so now's the time to give idea's on that for an awsome layout.

( if i find out how i'll post pic or a way to view the plan/ eventual layout )

So if you have any ideas on what to put in and how to make a really relistic city in the middle,

cuz i know someone will ask here's what we're doing:

- N scale
- Shelf Layout
- Modern ( 1960's-mid 1990's ) ((not sure on exact starting time might change to 70's))
- City area
- Switching ground/yard
- double main line
- For opperation, running/relisim

( all for not to much cost )
-Please focous on the city on this topic-

[Jetrock]

Okay--what exactly is it that you want to know?

[Anonymous]

just how to make the city as relistic as possable

[Anonymous]

you could model detroit by simply leaving empty lots, with a few burned out cars. that should be cost saving and give the whole detroit experiance[:D]

[Jetrock]

I'd recommend BUILDING CITY SCENERY FOR YOUR MODEL RAILROAD by John Pryke:

http://store.yahoo.net/kalmbachcatalog/12204.html

If it's a shelf layout, you'll want to put some thought into how to fool the viewer into thinking that there is more there than there really is. You won't have room to model full-sized buildings, so both a good backdrop and building flats are important. Use a few foreground buildings to help create the illusion of depth, and be sure to include lots of trackside detail. By focusing on flats and backdrop, you will also save some money because you won't have room for those uber-expensive large-building kits.

If at all possible, go visit a city that has the kind of rail service you want to model and wander around near the tracks. Bring a camera. Take lots of photos of things that appeal to you.

In cities, the part of town near the tracks tends to be the dumpy, scruffy part of town. There will be older buildings, refuse, junk, trash, abandoned and burned out buildings, empty businesses and dirt. For much of the time period you want to model (60s through 90s) this sort of urban decay is commonplace. It makes for sad social conditions but great modeling.

[Anonymous]

Well, one of the best ways to figure out how to do it is to look at other examples. Some will show you what to do, others may show you what NOT to try. [;)]

There are lots of layout photos on the web. You could start at:
http://www.billsrailroad.net/

At the bottom of his page are links to numerous mrr web rings with lots of sites to look at. Jump in and start looking. You'll find lots of ideas.

Mike Tennent

[pcarrell]

This is, IMHO, one of the better city scenes in model railroading;

http://www.trevinocircle.com/FSM.asp

I know that the time period is different, but the concepts are much the same. Dirt, grunge, signs and bilboards, people doing stuff in mini scenes, and so forth would all be the same, just change the styles and product names. Even the archatecture would be the same for a lot of buildings. Take note of some of the little details like broken fences, ivy on the sides of buildings, etc. These little details are what gives a scene life and provides interest to the eye. Look for things that draw you in. Study how that effect is created. These types of things can be replicated in any scale and any time period.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by N_trains


( i'm kind'a cheap w/o money for book's! )

[Anonymous]

If you've not got the money even to buy one book, how do you plan to build a layout? I'm not saying you must go out and spend a fortune, but even doing scratchbuilding and using "found" items, you'll still need well more than the cost of a book to do anything... I think you're well advised to invest now in one book, even if it means delaying the start of building. You'll learn and do things the right way the first time (in the long run, saving beaucoup dinero)

[emdgp92]

One thing I'm doing with my little town, is trying to avoid having streets that run along the layout edges. If they're slighly angled (say 30 degrees), the scene looks more interesting.

To see how a building will look before I build it, I sometimes tape the walls together...or build a mock-up from cardboard.

Another tip, is don't worry about the backs of the buildings. That is, if you can't see it, don't worry about detailing it. For example, I have a bus garage that only 2 walls can be seen--only the front and left wall are visible. As a result, the rear wall is painted cardboard, and the right wall has minimal detailing. I threw the unused rear wall and windows into my parts box.

DPM modular wall sections are awesome for creating low-relief buildings. Very little cutting, and most of the wall seams are hidden.

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by N_trains

just how to make the city as relistic as possable

If we are talking a truly realistic, major downtown urban center:

1. Read my posts under "Metro Layouts", currently on page 2 of this site.

2. Expect to spend at least a grand or more if the city occupies any substantial layout space (for example 3x12 in HO 2x7 in N). To be convincing, such a scene must occupy quite a bit of space and contain a minimum of 40-50 buildings, plus two dimensional paper ones glued, or painted, on the backdrop.

3. Don't attempt a dense, highly urban scene until you have several smaller, detailed layouts under your belt...it's a huge, costly undetraking if you want to do it right.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kchronister

If you've not got the money even to buy one book, how do you plan to build a layout? I'm not saying you must go out and spend a fortune, but even doing scratchbuilding and using "found" items, you'll still need well more than the cost of a book to do anything... I think you're well advised to invest now in one book, even if it means delaying the start of building. You'll learn and do things the right way the first time (in the long run, saving beaucoup dinero)

I want to spend the money on track and buildings, but we do have 1 book by atlas, however i don't know if my dad will pay for many books and my money is split between this and saving with a little going to a few other projects. what i'm trying to do is absorb off the fourm and save my lawnmowing money this summer, BUT i have a news flash! it's winter!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by N_trains

QUOTE: Originally posted by kchronister

If you've not got the money even to buy one book, how do you plan to build a layout? I'm not saying you must go out and spend a fortune, but even doing scratchbuilding and using "found" items, you'll still need well more than the cost of a book to do anything... I think you're well advised to invest now in one book, even if it means delaying the start of building. You'll learn and do things the right way the first time (in the long run, saving beaucoup dinero)

I want to spend the money on track and buildings, but we do have 1 book by atlas, however i don't know if my dad will pay for many books and my money is split between this and saving with a little going to a few other projects. what i'm trying to do is absorb off the fourm and save my lawnmowing money this summer, BUT i have a news flash! it's winter!!!!!!

I Soooo get the desire to buy track, buildings, etc. Heck, I moved, tore down one layout and don't have my new one built yet, so what did I ask my wife to get me for Christmas? Wood? Supplies? Foam? Nope. Locomotives. We all have the same "want" versus "need" dilemmas...

But that's exactly my point -- the less you have to spend, the more important to spend it wisely. Would you rather put all that sweatily-earned lawnmowing money into buildings that turn out not to work for you? What about buying a bunch of track then discovering that for your city scene you really want rails embedded in "concrete" streets, and that the roadbed-attached ez-track you bought won't work for that, and you could have bought a lot more flex track that _would_ work (and for less money). The problem is that you don't know what you don't know...

Even worse, what if you buy a bunch of stuff for modeling a cityscape, then find that's not what you want to do in the end? Woulda been cheaper to buy a book and then say "geez, this isn't for me, I really ought to do a switching layout" before you bought a bunch of storefronts, theaters, and other "city" buildings that won't work in an industrial switching environment.

Yes, absolutely absorb what you can off the forums, they're a great resource. (Take things with a grain of salt too, this place is not the 'gospel' and there's lousy info alongside the good.)

But carefully investing in a book or two - especially books that are very specifically targeted at a very specific type of model railroad that you very specifically want to build _IS_ a good investment. Probably a better investment at this point than spending the same amount on... what? one, maybe two turnouts?

As has been already pointed out here, you have picked one of the more cost-intensive and skill-intensive types of layout to go after. (All you have to do is add a narrow-gauge traction element with overhead catenaries, and I'd say you're in the most costly and demanding thing you can do in HO.) It's generally a whole lot cheaper (and generally easier to get acceptable results) modeling a 'countryside' type setting than a city. Be very sure you're committed before you start spending your all-too-limited funds on things that may end up unused.

[Jetrock]

N_trains: A model railroad will cost you, on average, about $100-150 PER SQUARE FOOT. Spending $15-20 on a book won't break your budget--and some education will give you a lot better idea of what you actually want to do, and may end up SAVING you money because you'll learn how to scratchbuild things you otherwise might have bought, and you'll avoid buying things you don't need.

Check out your local public library--many libraries have at least a few books on model railroading. Photocopy pages you can't live without. And hey, ASK your dad if you can spend some of this layout money on books. Ideally, see if he'll agree to take you to a model train show somewhere and look for used-book dealers--often you can score model railroad books for CHEAP (like $1-2 each instead of $15-20) because they're used or have some wear. Those shows are also good places to get cheap building kits (if you're going to model a built-up area, you will ned MANY kits, so the cheaper the better!) and rolling stock. Most model train shows are during the winter, because the hobbyists are stuck indoors and lots of new model railroaders get their start after a Christmas present train set.

And yes, it's winter--but if you have a snow shovel, you have a way to earn a few bucks until things thaw out enough to need a mower!