New Here, But I already have a Question

[Anonymous]

Hi Guys,
My Grandpa introduced me to model railroading when I was 11. Im still in love with it today and I have a couple of engines, but no rolling stock yet! I had some but it was sold in a yard sale by my mother! lol I also used to have an ol stand by 4X8 table I ran on! It was fun and I got crative with construction paper! ut I din't have the funding to do what I wanted! I still Don't!

My Question is This! Now Im ready to start a on a lay out that will run along the walls of a room and then will expand inward! Im thinking since most of you have been at this a while! what would you start out with first?

Im looking to run HO scale Standard Guage, and have it be an operational railroad where I can sort cuts of cars, and have an objective freight item like coal or chemicals or some thing! but im just starting to pull Ideas! I want this to be something I can work on for ever on my rainey days and with my kids! but right now Im just looking to break ground on this thing ya know! So what section Of track Is best to start on? I would like to stay away from a 4X8 but Im open to all Ideas! This will be fun!

Things I know I want
-An operational on layout yard!
-a big busines
-a nice town! (wife wants to paint those "cute little houses")
-a senic Pass, like a track beside some woods or a road or throught some foot hills, or past a large lake or river things like that!

Things I don't KNOW
-What Era I want (which is easyiest to shop for?)
-What Business I want
-What DCC system to use
-When to start wiring, should be from the start and as I go or should I wait?

I hope I havent over loaded you guys with questions, but im not sure, so im commin to the pros!
Chase

[Anonymous]

Around-the-walls layouts are great. they give you lots of linear space without using floorspace in the room. BUT! before you build anything you need a detailed plan. Otherwise you will end up redoing a lot. You dont need to plan scenery yet, but you need a layout size, how you will construct it, and most importantly, a well thought out track plan. All of us on the forum are happy to help with planning and construction ideas so dont hesitate to ask. To plan my around-the-walls layout i used a free track planning program called xtrkcad. You can download it here:
http://www.sillub.com/

Decide how long a mainline you want, how much switching, and how many trains you want to run at once. Then post your preliminary plan here along with your goals and get advice on how to make it better. But the most important thing of all is to have fun!

[#welcome]

[ndbprr]

From my experience you will change things any way so to some extent it is best to jump in the shallow end feet first and get started. Here are the critical areas:
1. At least one curve will have a critical location so lay it first
2. Next is some trackwork involving turnouts so lay some lefts and rights on a copier and make full size templates and then place them on the railroad to make sure things fit. Remember to not lay them track side down or the right will be a left and the left a right. Be sure to draw straight lines and not fudge the templates by turning them a little so they fit.
3. Connect the critical areas with sectional or flex track and run trains.

[ARTHILL]

I agree with ndbprr. Plan the sub scenes to do and look as you want. Then connect them together in the availible space and build ome that was better than waiting forever to get the bridge built before I had a running train. I use cookie cutter sub bed on L-girder framework, so change in direction, curve or grade is easy. Have fun, and keep us posted.

[emdgp92]

Like you, I started with an HO layout on a 4x8 table. However, I dismantled that, and started over. Right now, I have a 12x10 layout that runs along 2 walls in my workshop, on shelves only 2' wide, with a 4'-square corner section. It's all modular construction, so if I ever have to move it, it all comes apart. Here's a link to my Penn Central (or "Plywood Central" as my scenery is still unfinished). I don't have much in the way of scenery, but it's still fun to shuffle freight cars around :)

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the input guys and the info now, what do you think about using flex track for most if not all turns! instead of small turn outs! and what road bed do you suggest? I'll be using either scrap or birch(sp?) ply wood to build the bench work and I plan on making it about 4 and 1/2 feet tall! is this a way to go or not?

I plan to post what I complete but It might be a whaile before i get rolling

and thanks JPM335 for the track plan layout tool I'll play with that to night and post a pic of it later tonight or early tommorrow afternoon!

[jecorbett]

Don't forget to include staging in your track plan. An around the room layout can be an oval, point-to-point, loop-to-loop, or point-to-loop. You can even combine schematics by having cutoff tracks. With an oval, one staging yard can serve both ends of your mainline but the disadvantage is that trains have to be turned by hand unless you have a wye with a long tail track. With a loop-to-loop, your loops can serve as your staging yard if the loops are multi-tracked. The disadvantage of loops is they eat up a lot of space so many modelers (myself included) stack the loops on top of each other. A true point-to-point is the most prototypical but also requires trains to be turned manually. It's probably best for large layouts. Otherwise you will spend more time turning the trains around then you will running them.

One of the advantages of a shelf layout is you can build it in stages. Build a staging yard at one end and begin building out from there, one scene at a time with a temporary staging area at the other end. You can even use the bench work you plan for your next scene to hold your temporary staging yard. That way you can start running trains before you complete your mainline. As you get one scene reasonably complete, you can move on to the next area. That way you can grow your railroad a little at a time.

[Anonymous]

Srry my above post made no sense about turnouts! just digard it! I meant to ask it like this! Is it ok to use entire pieces of Flex track through out a lay out as curves! and what should the distance in wireing be! how many inches or feet? as a good rule of thumb! and where should I sauter(SP?) the wiring to the rails? should it be where they conect? I know I know, i need to read up on this stuff and I think I have but my memory is Kinda scrambled! Im thinking every 20' is what I heard but im not sure! and I think it has some thing to do with the amount of spures and sidings you have as well! will current need to be seprately supplied to those?

O' and I haven't had time to mess with that Track Cad thing! I'll play with it tomorrow! I know that this is MY LAYOUT But I can't decide on what I man't to do! as far as seenery... I don't know what time of year to do! but Im leanning hevily towards winter and snow i think it's neat, and there is something humbling about it! What Era should i model! Im thinking modern! But im torn Between that and 1940s, and what region! I lived in colorado when I was a child from the age of 9 to 12 and I loved the Rio Grande! But Im a true southerner at heart and enjoy watching local freight movments of Norfolk southern and CSX, What to do, what to do, lol any sugestions! and Heck what would You Guys Like TO SEE!

and another thing is there some thing I need to know about snow! why don't more people model it?

Thanks Guys

[Anonymous]

O aqnd why can I get my signature displayed lol! or is it and I just cant see it!

EDIT:::NVR MIND GOT IT

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Dock_661
Is it ok to use entire pieces of Flex track through out a lay out as curves!

That is its primary purpose.

QUOTE: what should the distance in wireing be! how many inches or feet? as a good rule of thumb!

Some people add a feeder wire every 3 feet (one per track). I'm more a once every six feet or so person.

QUOTE: where should I sauter(SP?) the wiring to the rails? should it be where they conect?

I only solder rail connectors on flex track on curves. The wire should be soldered to the outside of the rails. If you wire to the inside it could interfere with the wheels.

[Anonymous]

Flex track is definently the way to go. Im with TZ, I put feeders every 6 feet (or every other section of flextrack). I think a winter layout would be neat, kind of different. I think most people dont do it because It might get a little boring looking at all white. But I think it could be pulled off if it was thought out well. Actually several people on the forum temporarily put snow on thier layout during the winter. So its not something that nobody does.

The era you model is your descision, I cant decide for you but I can give you a few things to consider. Personally I do modern stuff (early 90s+). There are a few problems though. The cars and engines are generally longer than the older stuff so you need a wider curve radius. Also you cant fit as many cars in a given yard. Most people model the 40s to 50s, called the transition era. This is considered the "heydey" of railroading. Amtrak wasnt around yet, the diesels were making thier appearance but there were still plenty of big steamers. Steam engines are more succeptable to bad track than diesels though. So if you choose that era you will inevitably (how do you spell that?) end up fixing some track. So its your choice. Do you want what you grew up with, or what you see today?

Also I think a Colorado layout would be great! I envisoin snow capped mountain passes with trains gliding through?

[Tom Bryant_MR]

There are a number of publications that are sort of pre-requiste reading. You will more than likely get these later anyway.

Try your local library and then your LHS.

48 Top-notch Track Plans by Kalmbach publishing - learn how to doodle.
Track Planning for Realistic Operation by John Armstrong - learn about operations

There are others which I am sure you will see at your LHS and others here can advise on.

Have fun.

[Anonymous]

Both of those books sound great and I think I'm going to the hobby shop for Christmas this year! I won't be able to get to much because money is really tight right now but I think I will pick up some more books! like the two mentioned above!

Im really excited about this! If I was to do a temporary snow layout, say like for the winter months, would i just have to vacume it off the layout when ready to remove it for summer?, or how would i get it up with out ruining my lay out? (is vacuming ok?)

Im gonna have to get some demensions of the area I'm gon to try and model! and maybe draw it out! and post it on here it will be ruff, so maybe I'll wait until I read up on those track plan books, then I'll post!

You guys are a big help thanks!

[SpaceMouse]

There are two things you should do before you plan your layout.

1) Research
2) Research

A conservative estimate of what you will spend on a layout is $50/sq fot and you will put 50 hours/sq ft of time in. Unless you want to double that, you need a good plan and that requires doing your homework.

Now there are two parts of the plan.

What you want.
And the track plan.

For some odd reason, most newbees jump right into the track plan without figuring out what they want. That's where the research comes in. There are hundreds of layouts you can look at on line. A good place to start is: http://www.railimages.com/gallery/. Once you find something that strikes your fancy, go to the library and research it. The more you find out about the era, the railroad, and the location, the better you will be able to model it and indeed the more excited you will be about what you are planning.

The previously mentioned Track Planning for Realistic Operations by John Armstrong. is required reading. Also as previously mentioned, plan for staging even if you don't know why now. Staging increases what you can do with your layout 10 fold.

[Icefoot]

Chase,

I see you are in my neck of the woods: Concord, NC. I don't know if you are aware of the local club or not, but they would be a GREAT resource for helping answer your questions and get you started. As well as getting to see what others are doing on their layouts to help you further decide what you like and don't like. I personally have not contacted them yet, but here is the information about them:

Concord Area Model Railroad Club
Concord, North Carolina
Meets every third Saturday of each month at 7pm at member's layouts. Most members model in HO scale, but all scales are welcome. For more information contact: Joe St.John at 704-786-3321or visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Concord_Area_Model_Railroad_Club/

BTW, I am working on a 18" x 17' (L-shaped) HO layout using sectional track. I adapted a track plan from Linn Wescott's 101 Track Plans book. I second the suggestions to plan a much as possible first (including scenery and structures). I started construction with just a vague idea of how the scenery and industries would fit and have ended up expanding the benchwork from 15" to 18" and reworking sections of the track plan several times to accomodate the industries I wanted.

But don't spend so much time planning that you never get around to building something. Just remember to account for track clearances and space to put structures AND the surrounding parking lots/streets, etc.

I would also recommend visiting the Layout Design Primer web pages sponsored by NMRA (http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/LDSIGprimer/TOC.html). Athough it is a LOT of information to read, it has a tremendous amount of good information. It helped me spot and correct some mistakes in my track plan early enough to make the changes a lot less trouble to implement.

Mark

BTW, there is a train show coming to the Cabarrus Arena Event Center on 2/18/2006. The Great Western & Atlantic Train Show (11am-5pm). A good place to meet the local modelers :).

[Anonymous]

Thats good news! I'll probably be there at the train show! actually Im ashamed of my self, for I joined the Concord area Model Rail Roaders and Life got very busy at the same time! RACING (you know how big it is around these parts) So i couldn't attend meetings but all the racing has actually fallen through so now im unimployed! But I'm still a registered member for another month to CAMRR.... I have only been to one meeting but it was a good one every one is real nice and they usually have something to eat lol! but you meet alot of people! and They are all in love with it and are skilled at every thing! It was a fun time! I want to go to the meetings but life is kinda busy! Ya know? Plus I would be kinda embarrassed to go and see joe after all this time! (hes the head) But iit is a fun place to go play!