white foam 4x8

[talon104]

ok, here it is. i might have jumped the gun buying 2 4x8 sheets of foam for my layout, 1 for the base ,and one for the scenery. how i might have jumped the gun is i read some post dealing with foam, one in case talks about using foam, (beadboard) the insulation type you buy from a hardware store. well, looking at that i thought great and easy ,now i am finding alot of stuff about it being a bad idea to use ,well my question is has anyone out there used it and gotten good results from it? kinda need a moral boost after seeing everyone talk about how bad it is to use ,and only using the red or blue foam.
thanks for looking at this and giving your thought or idea.
C.C.

[dehusman]

The only place I have used beadboard is for large scenery contours. It is incredibly messy, very weak and very soft.

The ony hint I can give you is to wipe the knife you use to cut it with a dryer sheet (used or unused). It will kill the static electricity and stop the beads from sticking to the knife (or other surface you wipe down).

Dave H.

[colvinbackshop]

All the above!!
The "white" board will work for scenery (covered with a plaster cloth, or some type of top layer) but may not be strong enough for a base...I would get a pink, blue or yellow extruded sheet for the base and stick with the white stuff to build larger land forms.

[selector]

Agreed, unless you can slip the bottom sheet onto 1/2" plywood, and support the plywood sheet halfway down its length with a 3/4" X2" board that abutts against the ground for maximum strength. Use a thick wooden dowel for that to keep things cheap.

Then, do the messy job of getting your shapes and track passages, cover with plaster cloth (at least two layers criss-crossed and overlapping). You need not cover flat surfaces that will have ground foam covering them. Just paint the whole thing, cloth and all, with a very light shade of tan and grey, and immediately sprinkle at least two different colours and coarsenesses of ground foam for a natural look . Once scenicked, it will look great. Even mine turned out not half bad!

[Medina1128]

I used the bead board for the base level of my layout for large shapes, then cover it with the good foam (pink or blue). I do the actual carving in the good stuff, but the white stuff makes a sufficient base. And it's a lot cheaper.

[SteelMonsters]

White beaded foam is good if you like Cheet and Chong.

http://www.scaletree.com/foamsafety.html

[talon104]

I appreciate everyones posts and advice on this matter. Was kinda getting p***ed at myself for buying it but, i am releaved now. LO i build my first table yesterday. i guess it isnt half bad for the first time. i used a 1/2 plywood for top framed in 2x4s and used 1x4's for braces in the center about three . I was goingto use i peice of the white foam for the base on top of the plywood ,and then use the other peice for landscaping. I am a newbie so, i cant exspect perfection the first time out( yeah i keep telling myself) LOl just want it to be as good as everyone elses i see on here.i figured since they are about 2 inches thick it would be ok.but, just thought of something i have seen people say , to use one to carve out the landscape. As stupid as this sounds are they actually talking about carving into the base piece for valleys and such? that dosnt seem very easy to do, to get the track layout to fit and etc.? maybe i'm being really green at this just curious. well, thanks again for the imput everyone, i sure need it ,dont really have the confidence to actually start tho am kinda scared to touch it :)and mess it up.:))
thanks C.C.

[talon104]

just read the post from steelmonsters about the cheech and chong thing ( good one by the way) it makes me think tho why would a hardware store sell 4x8 sheets of this stuff for insulation if it is such a fire hazard? well, besides that thought i would think if it really comes down to it they all will be potential fire hazards no matter the pink ,blue etc,type foam products after considering you put glue and paint and lights ,etc,etc,etc, they all seem to me to have a great chance of becoming dangerous if not treated properly i would think.
still a good thing to keep in mind tho thanks monsters:)
C.C.

[John Busby]

Hi talon 104
I have my doubts about the white foam having the structural strength for a base.
If you are going to use it .
I think you will have to make a UK style open grid frame out of 2"' x 1".
so that no more than 12" square is unsuported you may also have to put a sheet of 1/4" plywood between the frame and the foam.
regards John

[talon104]

thanks for the input and advise John, i have already built a table to set it on ,it is built with a 1/2 inch plywood sheet. funny thing after i build it my wife told me it just looked like a big 4x8 work bench. lol i have used 4x4 's for the legs build the frame i screwed the plywood too out of 2x4's and used 1x4's as baces in the middle three to be exact 2, 4 and 6 feet apart in the center of the frame i sure hope this is enough support for the whole thing considering .:)
thanks again for the info
C.C.

[ondrek]

I built my 4x8 with 3"x1" framework, a 1/4" top sheet and then I used 2 sheets of 2'x8' white bead board foam on top. I then built up side walls of 1"x6" to protect the edges of the foam boards.

I am not expecting the foam to have strength, just east of use for digging down into for rivers and such. I then proceeded to build my mountain with the same material.
yeah, its a bit messy, but what isnt? and ist nothing a vacum cant make short work of.

Here is a pic of my layout with the white foam boards,
http://www.vermontel.net/~kevin_ondre/HO%20Train/CMRR_7_01_800x600.jpg
http://www.vermontel.net/~kevin_ondre/HO%20Train/CMRR_7_02_800x600.jpg

now, this table is extrremely light weight. detach the legs, and two people could easily cary it out of the basement. i say two because of its size only, not weight, honestly one person could cary it out, but they might ding it against the wall by accident.

the only reason i would vote against it is the fire hazard. I was unaware of its buring characteristics until i saw the link above.

So, if you are nervous about fire hazard, then return the sheets and get the pink or blue stuff, otherwise just go with the white, if you make a mistake and have to toss a whole mess of it, it wont hurt you as much watching the $$ go to the dump.

Kevin

[John Busby]

Hi kevin
The pink and blue foam has better structural strength so you can get away with slightly less support, but if not making an exhibition layout not really an issue
talon 104
Should be strong enough.
Sounds like the Domestic Authorities has an eye on your bench work for a pattern and layout table for sewing.
regards John

[ondrek]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Busby

Hi kevin
The pink and blue foam has better structural strength so you can get away with slightly less support, but if not making an exhibition layout not really an issue
talon 104
Should be strong enough.
Sounds like the Domestic Authorities has an eye on your bench work for a pattern and layout table for sewing.
regards John

Do domestic Authorities in my house. the wife knows exactly what the table was intended for. She has no problems with the train table. she just doesnt care for the rest of the junk accumulating on my side of the basement. 3 bicycles (one is hers though) 5 pairs of skis(2 pair are hers though) , table saw, lathe, drill press, bandsaw, work becnches....other unfinished projects....there are tons of stuff on my side. She cant complain though, all those tools got her the end table and her pencil post bed too, not to mention the huge 4' wide doll house/bookshelfs I made for our daughter. who also got a baby crib build for her doll, crib which she can fit into herself. So there hasnt been any complaining in my house about the train table nor its slow slow progression. my son is loosing hope in papa finishing it soon though. I keep telling him I will finish it soon.

KEvin

[talon104]

hey kevin thanks for everythnig you said about this topic. And wow your layout looks good being out of this white stuff( LMAO) thanks for all the detailed info about you using it and everythin that is what i needed. I was as surprised as you when i read the fire hazard link. I was thinking about lights and all for my layout now i'm kinda wondering if i should? like i mentioned before tho, they all have hazardous characteristic i would suppose just more than other for some. Anyhow, i bought the stuff already so i guess i'll give it a whirl ,am going to go to McCoys maybe wed and see if they have any of the other tuff( blue etc) before i do anything with this, if they do i might trya and take this back if i can. My luck in this rinky dink town is i would return it and someone else would buy it and i would be left with nothing .HAHA
Anyway thanks kevin if you have anymore pic of your layout i would really like to see them (for purly insperational purposes) i think it is amazing what you guys can do with a piece of foam and your talents, just hope i can follow inline
Hey john My wife got a good kick out of the sewing table comment, i am just glad she cant sew and i can LOL
Thanks again
C.C.

[ondrek]

I made a huge mess up, I just did a huge post, but forgot to log in first, i lost the entier post i was going to make, i feel like a complete idiot.

oh well, let me see if i can re-create it.....

I will get some pics tonight of my current progress. its been a while since those pics and i have ballasting done on 80%.

I am using a paint method for my ballasting, I bought the speckle paint from walmart that looks like stone, it seems to work well. pics of my test piece are here:
http://www.vermontel.net/~kevin_ondre/HO%20Train/track%20paint/

while the paint is wet, i put the track down into it and then sprinkle a light amount of ballast down just for looks. then i let it sit. the paint holds the track and does the ballasting in one step. for the turnouts, i painted the roadbed, let it dry and the put the track down, that way i dont have to worry about little rocks in the points and such.

anyhow, what i will say is that any ballasting will increae the sound while the train is running, the ballasting creates a ridged shell that fights the sound deading characteristics of the roadbed. I used the WS foam roadbed, and even with the flexability the paint has, its still louder when the train runs over ballasted track than when running over unballasted track. it almost makes using a sound reducing roadbed silly.

another note on the foam. make sure you use good glue. white glue works well, but that stuff is ridged when dry so that would add another sound reducing fighter. silicone caulk adheasive is much more flexy and works well. just make sure you have the caulk adheasive with sinlicone, other types will eat the foam, do a test to make sure. the stuff is really cheap and you dont need much to hold down the roadbed. also if you want to change the location of the roadbed after its down and dry, it comes up very easy and is not damaging at all.

when you cut the foam sheets to make layers for hills, if you have one use a bandsaw, i found it makes a much nicer cut in the sheet and makes much less mess. the hill was formed by using 2 layers, the 3rd layer was the cap and then any layer above that is just for hill making purposes. I gled them all together, let it dry and then used a metal cutting hacksaw blade to shape the hill. i wrapped the blade with tape where i was going to hold it with my hand as after a while the blade can start to dig into your skin while you are cutting the foam. After the shape was there, if there was a corner that i didnt like or a slope i didnt like, i used light weight spackle to fill it in. works great.

ok, back to work for me.

Kevin

[Anonymous]

I used layers of white foam as a base on top of plywood. Yes, it did get a bit messy with the beads but that's what they make brooms and shop vacs for. I cut into the layers to make a river bed. I would have used the blue or pink but the price was right for the cheap stuff and I didn't know any better. Plus, the one inch and two inch foam insulation that the Home Depot did have was not level and I did not feel like having to spend time sanding it down.

[ARTHILL]

Though I use the blue stuff, I paint a liberal coat of light weight drywall seam cement (Pre-mixed) over everything with a paint brush 1/8" to 1/4" thick. It takes about a day to dry and you can do some carving (bricks and rock walls) right in it when it is sort of dry. That paints nice and is a good base for rock castings and real rocks. You can then fill in the gaps with more seam cement at any time. It is easier, faster and cheaper than the plaster cloth and I think gives a better job. If you don't like something you can just cut it out with a steak knife and start over. The only draw back is if you paint with water based paints, don't scrub the first coat very long. Following washes have no effect on the cement.

[ARTHILL]

For glue, I like hot melt if I am in a hurry or latex acrylic caulk for EVERYTHING else. Lay road bed, track, everything with cheap latex acrylic clear caulk. Brands make no differnce. Remember, silicone will eat the foam and smell up the house.

[talon104]

hey thanks guys for all the interesting info! it's great and helps out alot on things i was thinking about and how to do them .
Hey Kevin, thanks for sending the picks of your layout and the progress steps and such. it's great and looks really good. Also thanks alot for the detailed info , guess you are kinda my mentor in this thing LOl .thanks again.
Rev matt , i also appreciate your input on the do' s and donts of this project thanks a bunch,
Arthill ,you are also a savior in the info you bring to this newbie trying his first baby step.
All you guys are great, i respect you all and thanks you for all your inputs on my layout ,and i would like to say it sure is nice of you all to take time out to help me on this . Thanks again ,and i am sure going to use them all.without a doubt.
i'll be bold now and try to squeeze a littel info from you all. Ok mine is a HO scale what would be the best thing to use for ballest? the painting idea i like , problem i think is i am going really cheap on tis first project and am using power loc life like track ( it has the plastic molded stuff on it) lol am new so i really dont know what to call it. should i just paint it and be done with it or ,sould i use some sort of sand etc, to cover it up? LO migh tseem silly but thought i would ask.
still scratching my head on things but am trying :)
Thank you all again
Chris

[Medina1128]

4x4's for legs?!?! Holy moly! This thing must weigh a ton. I followed the tips used on the Building your first layout DVD. I had 1x4 legs and it wobbled pretty bad, so I had made swingout braces that ran across an aisle. What a pain that was. I removed the legs and nailed and glued strips of 1/2 inch plywood down the legs. This stabilized the layout to the point that I removed the swing outs. And they're nowhere near as heavy as 4x4's. I'd hide the 4x4's, though. The wife'll see them and think of some "honey-do" project that they can be used for (framing her garden, fence posts, a patio)...

[talon104]

yep, 4x4 legs( they were from a Deck i had built ) seemed more cost effective to use something i already had. And heck, no worries on whether or not it will hold the layout ,ha ,

[ondrek]

dont mark me as a mentor.....after last night I am finding am really not very good at this layout building stuff.

I have track problems all over the place.

I have a 4-4-2 that the front pilot trucks keep derailing. most of the time its on my turnouts and two other places on my layout not at turnouts.

I am finding that if i run trains without leading trucks, I am golden, just for some reason the wheels on the leading trucks seem to like to ride up and over the rails.

I do have some pics of the current progress. but since you already have the track that has the built in roadbed, then you are going to be further along than i am once you lay the track. I probably should have looked into those myself. but oh no, I had to go the hard way. Stick with your choices, your well on your way to your first layout.

Kevin

[talon104]

well, kevin ,i think you are doing a pretty awsome job from what i see ,and the delays and you might say( side tracks)_LOL are to be exspected. is your tack level ,and meet up with the joinin rails? i was having that problem and ran my fingers over them both ways found alot of irregularities so i had to work with them. then i ran a car across the track both ways( pushed the car by hand) to see if i could hear anything tha wasnt aligned.
As far as my track i have the track layed out right now just to give me a idea of how it would look and get a perspective of placement of things but, even with this power loc stuff ,i'm a dummy LO . got off work last night and thought i would run the train aroun the track just to see it and ,ow and behold it only ran a little ways and quit. i am only using the power pack that came with the set so i dont know if it just doesnt supply enough power to all the track or, i did something wrong? i made a larger oval with a left and right hand remote switch to a center smaller kinda offset oval . maybe this is my problem and the power is dead becaouse of the switches being ont he main track heck i dont know? scratching my head here. :)
anyway you will work through the problems i am sure.
thanks again
chris

[talon104]

Well, here i am again, with great news; I found my flaw in my track. One of my pieces had a small connecter missing on one side of the track so, there wasnt any contact there.Man sure am glad i was starting to get "P " ode. anyway so now i have my track the way i think i want it .I just have to figure my next step( of course after i move the track to the actual base since i had hem stack on top of each other ,the track is on my scenery foam LOL . no biggy, just need to figure out what step to take next.

[dgwinup]

What turnouts are you using? Often, performance over a turnout can be improved with a little work on the points. Many turnouts have a notch in the outer stock rails that the point moves into. Make sure the notch is clear of any debris. The points themselves should come to a very fine point where they touch the outer stock rails. A little filing to get the points really thin will help guide the pilot trucks into and through the turnout. The very tip of the point should also be filed down at a slight angle. This allows a slow transition for the wheels to follow and not 'pick' the point.

Hope this helps eliminate your derailments.

Darrell, quiet...for now

[talon104]

hum, fell really stupid when your lost on what the topic is about ,turnouts.well, all ican say is i went really cheap for this one ( since it is my first time and i need to learn) i am using power loc for right now.I found the problem earlier a good thing bout this track is the train goes until it stops; At that point you know there is a problem ,and sure enough it was the track. I had bought some off ebay and a piece on the curve had a contact missing. so, i put a temp piece in until i either buy a new piece or fix that one( havent decided?
i am only about two weks or so into this , really green , so ,i still have alot to learn about ,and the terms used . but ,man i havent been this excited about a hobby since i used to ride quads LOL. this is cool stuff

[talon104]

ok, looked it up in the glossary , i have a large oval with a smaller sort of off shaped one in the center .i have a left turn switch and a right turn switch leading in and out . if that makes sense? ran the trai and works great so far if that answers your question then i am learning here.