Staging on a small layout.

[Anonymous]

After reading all of the recent topics on operations and and staging I decided I needed to rework my layout into a point to point with some staging. My layout is (will be) made up of 2 foot deep sections of various lengths set back to back with the ends connecting them into a large loop. I decided to put the end points back to back on the short leg of the L.

I decided I did not have any place to hide staging and that my foam on hallow doors was to thick to go under for staging. Removable staging is out of the question because I would never remove it. I thought about removable "cassettes" where I could move trains onto and off of the layout but they seemed to be to disruptive to operations.

I tried to design back to back yards for visible staging but after a few days of trying to design one realistic yard in a 2 X 5 1/2 foot area. After getting so frustrated I almost gave up on the whole thing I put this together for just staging.

It is not a realistic yard I know but would it be useful as staging? I made it a little deeper, 30 inches, to increase the capacity on the staging tracks. It is N scale and one day I hope to have some mid sized or large steam locomotives. Since I am designing my layout on the fly I am not really sure how much staging I will need.



Any suggestions or comments?

[Anonymous]

bukwrm,

Is this designed for sectional track or just a tool for designing the layout?

Is there 2x switches or a diamond crossing off the main? If you are using a diamond crossing, check all options for the track code and ensure a smooth transition from the loop to the main through the diamond. Eg Atlas produces various angles , Peco produce a couple which are different again and other manufacturers may do likewise.

Can the right hand Main point be moved to the left a bit to permit run around moves ? If this can be done then the design could be used as a stand alone. It probably won't have a prototype any where in the world but it could still present some fun.

Consider the use of curved points off the loop track.

Ensure when wiring that the three reverse loops are wired correctly.

Peter

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peter Skennerton

bukwrm,

Is this designed for sectional track or just a tool for designing the layout?

It is just a tool. I perfer flex track wherever I can use it but the sectional track is easier to work with in RTS 7.0.

QUOTE: Is there 2x switches or a diamond crossing off the main? If you are using a diamond crossing, check all options for the track code and ensure a smooth transition from the loop to the main through the diamond. Eg Atlas produces various angles , Peco produce a couple which are different again and other manufacturers may do likewise.

Two switches off the main wich is Atlas Code 55. I will switch to Code 80 for the staging yard. I think the smallest angle diamond would be best. that way I can possably move the lower half of the "yard" down and lengthen the staging tracks.

QUOTE: Can the right hand Main point be moved to the left a bit to permit run around moves ? If this can be done then the design could be used as a stand alone. It probably won't have a prototype any where in the world but it could still present some fun.

I am not sure I follow you there. The main continues in both direction onto other sections of benchwork. I am thinking of this one staging yard as the East and West end of the layout so there will not be trains running past here unless I am just running one in circles for the heck of it.

[rolleiman]

With respect to Hidden staging.. Being N scale, you only have to duck down an inch or so below grade, right?? Why not use thinner foam where you want staging yards and come up with a removable hill or shallow scene for access?? No? Yes? Maybe?? Your circular arrangement looks more of a headache than it would be worth to me but maybe I'm not getting exactly what you are trying to do there.

Jeff

[Anonymous]

I'm going to admit to having a little trouble trying follow everything, here. Maybe it's because I'm watching Haunted on Discovery Channel, while I'm reading this.

You said you've decided to do a two foot deep L shaped shelf unit in N scale? That is exactly what I want to do, if I ever have the space. My plan was to only use the front one and a half feet for the layout itself, and have hidden staging in the other six inches, behind a low backdrop. One track of the staging would go the full length of both legs, with simple ladder yards on either end. Trains would enter the layout near the bend, and be able to enter from either direction. This would require a diamond crossing.

If you want to do continuous running, you could just put curves on either end, to connect the ends of the scenicked area, with ends of the staging. You wouldn't have to worry about letting the trains enter from the center, with that setup.

[Tom Bryant_MR]

bukwrm, don't know if this will help.

Here is a short, but very informative read on staging ... no pictures.
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/LDSIGprimer/Staging.html

Since you mentioned L shaped, note here how the staging in the upper right flows in an L around the layout. I've assumed your pic above is the L portion of your layout. Maybe this will give you an idea.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rdaniels2/Plan.htm

I'm probably off base here. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rolleiman

With respect to Hidden staging.. Being N scale, you only have to duck down an inch or so below grade, right?? Why not use thinner foam where you want staging yards and come up with a removable hill or shallow scene for access?? No? Yes? Maybe?? Your circular arrangement looks more of a headache than it would be worth to me but maybe I'm not getting exactly what you are trying to do there.

Jeff

Right now I am running trains 5 feet long and I would make them longer if I had more rolling stock. To make below grade staging work I need to keep the grade of the track around 2%. Even if I don't consider the thickness of the bench work at all I need to lower the track 3 inch's minimum just to be able to get my hand in to fish out and potential derailments.

The only reason I am considering this is It allows me to stage about 85 cars, considering an average of 5 inches each, that I can bring out onto the layout in either direction. This "Module" would be separated from the rest of the layout by a backboard on the top and the right and when standing facing it your back would be to the wall making it as hidden as possible with a free standing walk-around layout.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Greyryder

I'm going to admit to having a little trouble trying follow everything, here. Maybe it's because I'm watching Haunted on Discovery Channel, while I'm reading this.

You said you've decided to do a two foot deep L shaped shelf unit in N scale? That is exactly what I want to do, if I ever have the space. My plan was to only use the front one and a half feet for the layout itself, and have hidden staging in the other six inches, behind a low backdrop. One track of the staging would go the full length of both legs, with simple ladder yards on either end. Trains would enter the layout near the bend, and be able to enter from either direction. This would require a diamond crossing.

If you want to do continuous running, you could just put curves on either end, to connect the ends of the scenicked area, with ends of the staging. You wouldn't have to worry about letting the trains enter from the center, with that setup.

I don't think I described my layout very well. Here is a quick drawing I put together in Paint. Nothing is to scale just a quick sketch by an untalented ex-mechanic.



It is a walk-around island layout. The black is Phase 1 being built and scenicked now. Red is Phase 2, the gray is where the proposed staging would be. The thin lines are backboards that separate the 4 foot wide table into 2 foot areas. I intend to build them as 2 foot wide sections so I can rearrange or switch them out as needed. The Blue area, Phase 3 has not been approved by the CFO.

I considered making the end points on the point of the L near the walls but if I take 6 inch's from each side I figure I can get 5 tracks about 4 1/2 feet long on both legs. This would let me stage 90 cars and still have room to park the first train across the layout. It does limit me to trains of 10 or less cars. Whatever leaves a track at one end has to fit in another single track on the other side. Also reaching the staging tracks with a backboard in place is difficult.

With the oval however many cars I put into a train will fit at the other end. I can put together a 5 car train, a 20 car train or in theory one 85 car train.

If it works at all.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tom Bryant_MR

bukwrm, don't know if this will help.

Here is a short, but very informative read on staging ... no pictures.
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/LDSIGprimer/Staging.html

Since you mentioned L shaped, note here how the staging in the upper right flows in an L around the layout. I've assumed your pic above is the L portion of your layout. Maybe this will give you an idea.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rdaniels2/Plan.htm

I'm probably off base here. Best of luck.

Everything helps Tom

I don't know if I read the artical before or not. Even if I did it helped clarify a few things.

The layout plan is very impressive. I can't help but wonder what they could have done with that much room in N scale. The massive double ended staging yard is ideal. It is hidden in another room, there is room for more rolling stock than I can imagine having. But I am still not sure of the practicality of my combination double and stub end staging .

[SpaceMouse]

Mr. Worm,

I'm not sure how you see your layout as operating. You have the makings of a good interchainge operation--two yards form neighboring roads changing cars. If that is the case you want as much staging as possible. To make that really work, you need as much yard as you can get. You can use the tracks in the center as runarounds.

Everything else (not included in the basic oval then becomes superfulous and can be staging. I would pull staging off the ends of your ovals and put a back drop between the oval and staging. you should be able to get a few tracks such that trains can come into one yard or the other from the outside world.

I have like the interchange yard idea since I first saw one. In between my 4x8 and my basement layout, I intend to build an interchange yard-switching shelf layout in N scale.

[ClinchValleySD40]

Staging does not have to be hidden. As long as it's off to the side, there is no problem leaving it open and visible. And if you'd like, just put a highway overpass or something across the end where the trains go into staging. Open staging has lots of advantages, main one being access.

[Anonymous]

Looking things over I discovered I miscalculated the capacity and have to go back to the drawing board.

Chip: You nailed it. That is exactly what I am trying to design, an interchange yard for the "East bound" and "West bound" trains on the layout. I just need to make one that will fit in the space I have.

clinchvalley : I did give up on totally hidden in favor of accessibility. Some simple backdrops should be enough to keep it hidden from everyone but the staging operator.

When I finally get all 3 phases of the project done I will have a little more than 40 feet of main line between each end of the staging. I don't have every foot of that planned out yet but does that matter? I accommodate about 51 liner feet of 2 foot deep modules by setting them up in a |__| shape but I am really not willing to give up much more square footage to staging.

[Jetrock]

The only problem I see is that your "staging yards" are really short bits of track that only have room for a couple of cars each--a staging yard is intended to hold complete trains, unlike an onstage "classification yard" yard where trains are made up and broken down. So what you want is a smaller number of long straight yard tracks, instead of a larger number of short stubby ones--more length, less width.

As far as that track plan goes, one is tempted to ask whether it will be served with Italian sausage or spicy meatballs, but that would be mean.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock

The only problem I see is that your "staging yards" are really short bits of track that only have room for a couple of cars each--a staging yard is intended to hold complete trains, unlike an onstage "classification yard" yard where trains are made up and broken down. So what you want is a smaller number of long straight yard tracks, instead of a larger number of short stubby ones--more length, less width.

As far as that track plan goes, one is tempted to ask whether it will be served with Italian sausage or spicy meatballs, but that would be mean.

I agree entirely that the tracks are way to short to be useful. That is the reason I abandoned that design. I also agree the posted track plan looks like a bowl of spaghetti. Who could deny that after looking at it? Staging is where trains enter the layout but does that necessarily mean that only full trains can sit there waiting? Do actors just lounge behind the curtain waiting for their cues to enter the stage or do they change costumes and prepare for the next act?

My layout as proposed will only be 92 square feet. The spaghetti bowl is less than 14 square feet and if unwrapped it is a three track double ended yard with 10 stub end tracks. It also serves the East and the West of the layout. If it held more than 50 cars and if I was sure the overhang from the sharp curves would not interfere with the other tracks it might work. I sure don't want to use to much more of my real estate for "backstage".

In the article at http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/LDSIGprimer/Staging.html they talk of a staging operator. Why not on a smaller layout have one person devote there time to preparing the next train out?

The question is how many unique cars are needed to make up enough trains for an operating session and still not be to obvious that cars are recycling across the layout. That and how to make the stub tracks long enough that you don't have to empty them all to put together a 15 car train. Back to the grindstone.