A general wiring question

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone!

I started to lay track and to wire my layout as I go along. I’ll be running DCC and will end up with 32 TO’s on my layout, if I live long enough…

My question to you is: What’s the best way to wire track power and TO’s?

Track power: I’ll have plenty of feeds to sections of the track to ensure smooth operation throughout the layout. I’m using 18 gauge wire for that.

Turnouts: 32 turnouts will need to be wired to a control panel that I still have to build.
I like the idea of having a terminal barrier right at the TO so that it can easily be isolated.

My idea: Using dual-row terminal barriers for the feeder bus and the TO’s.
2 position dual-row terminal barriers for the feeder bus, and 5 position dual-row terminal barriers for every TO (I’m power routing the frog).


The downside of this: I’m gonna need an awful lot of terminal barriers to do it this way.
And they ain’t cheap either. But it would make for a nice, clean wiring, no?

So, how do you do it?
Thanks for your help!

[Jacktal]

Your solution has its advantages indeed...neat looking being one.The other asset of this is easy connect/disconnect when troubleshooting or adding other functions,etc.BUT...it is expensive indeed.One popular way to do is simply solder the wires,which ensures good conductivity.The use of "suitcase" connectors is also a good way to do and reasonably priced.

[Stevert]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kyle S.

Hi everyone!

I started to lay track and to wire my layout as I go along. I’ll be running DCC and will end up with 32 TO’s on my layout, if I live long enough…

Turnouts: 32 turnouts will need to be wired to a control panel that I still have to build.

The downside of this: I’m gonna need an awful lot of terminal barriers to do it this way.
And they ain’t cheap either. But it would make for a nice, clean wiring, no?

So, how do you do it?
Thanks for your help!

If you're going to use DCC, why string up all that wire and stuff for turnouts? Just use stationary decoders instead, and something like the Team Digital SIC24 for your panel. http://www.teamdigital1.com/

Or, if you have an old PC laying around, use JMRI's PanelPro for your panel: http://jmri.sourceforge.net/apps/PanelPro/PanelPro.html (FWIW, this is the route that I took...)

HTH,
Steve

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jacktal

Your solution has its advantages indeed...neat looking being one.The other asset of this is easy connect/disconnect when troubleshooting or adding other functions,etc.BUT...it is expensive indeed.One popular way to do is simply solder the wires,which ensures good conductivity.The use of "suitcase" connectors is also a good way to do and reasonably priced.

Thanks Jacktal,
I guess my problem is that I don't have a control panel for turnout control yet, so there's nothing to solder & run wires to yet. I might have to switch those TO's manualy and wait with the wiring until I have a control panel.
The feeder bus however can be used already. I'll have to drop feeders from various sections of the track as well as from the power routed frogs. As the layout progresses, there're gonna be a whole lot of feeder drops required. That's why I was thinking of the dual-row terminal barriers. To move the feeder wire along and at the same time, allow feeder drops to be connected to the terminals.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Stevert

If you're going to use DCC, why string up all that wire and stuff for turnouts? Just use stationary decoders instead, and something like the Team Digital SIC24 for your panel. http://www.teamdigital1.com/

Or, if you have an old PC laying around, use JMRI's PanelPro for your panel: http://jmri.sourceforge.net/apps/PanelPro/PanelPro.html (FWIW, this is the route that I took...)

HTH,
Steve

Hi Steve,
I've been thinking about DCC controlling the switches.
There are 2 drawbacks though:
First, It'll cost me over $10 per switch to control them with DCC. A total of over $320 for my layout..
And secondly, although I do have more than one spare PC laying around to run my layout from, I'd rather control it the old fashion way. Flipping an actual switch to throw the turnout, you know. I even have a Locobuffer II, but I'm planning on only using it to program CV's from a PC.

[BR60103]

Kyle: until you have the control panel, you could run the turnout control wires to a pair of screws on the side of the layout. Then a piece of wire connected to the power feed and you have local turnout control. A small diagram to keep it clear. You might find you prefer it to a control panel.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BR60103

Kyle: until you have the control panel, you could run the turnout control wires to a pair of screws on the side of the layout. Then a piece of wire connected to the power feed and you have local turnout control. A small diagram to keep it clear. You might find you prefer it to a control panel.

Thanks, that's a good idea!
Now, how about stringing the feeder wire along? Is there a better way than using
terminal barriers to run it along the layout and to make drops from the track and turnouts to it?

[Medina1128]

While we're on the subject of general wiring, I have a question. My layout is a folded dog-bone. It's 50 x 12 feet and I'm wiring it the old fashioned dual cab control/block manner (yeah, I know, "Why you doing that??). Basically, the original cost is cheaper than DCC/decoders, etc. Anwyay, my question is, "What gauge wire would you recommend for the busses from the control panel to the feeders for the individual blocks, so that voltage drop is not an issue?"

[Jacktal]

Wire gauge is dictated by the amount of energy carried (number of locos,etc) and the distance travelled by this energy.Closer to your control panel,I'd say 16 GA would be fine but as you feed further blocks,I'd increase the size to 14 GA. which should be enough.However,for a minimal cost difference,you could use 12 GA. throughout and be bullet proof.Bigger wire gauge is also required from your cabs to your control panel to make all this worthwhile.

Fifty feet is quite a long way to go for your track power so that you stand chances of power losses along the way.Most times,these won't be noticeable as they'll translate in slightly inferior slow speed characteristics and/or slower top speed,or weaker pulling engines as they go farther away from the power supply.

Track resistance is also of importance so installing feeders every three feet or so is recommended,specially within your longer blocks.Another important nest for current loss is the switches you use.Cheap switches will do for short lengths of electrical paths but I'd go heavy duty style in your case,at least for the further blocks,to match with the heavier wire gauge.My two cents....for what they're worthed..........

[fwright]

An advantage of your terminal blocks - either screw or solder lugs - is that you can easily parallel your turnout controls to both a "local" panel or control switch and the main control panel - and one can be added much later than the other, or never at all. As long as your turnout uses momentary contacts - either toggle or push button - for control, you can set up multiple control locations for your turnouts to your heart's delight.

Fred Wright

[Medina1128]

Thanks for the info, Jacktal!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fwright

An advantage of your terminal blocks - either screw or solder lugs - is that you can easily parallel your turnout controls to both a "local" panel or control switch and the main control panel - and one can be added much later than the other, or never at all. As long as your turnout uses momentary contacts - either toggle or push button - for control, you can set up multiple control locations for your turnouts to your heart's delight.

Fred Wright

Good point, Fred.

Now, as far as the feeder bus goes; I can't see any other practical way than using terminal blocks to hock up all the power feeds I need with DCC.
I'm building a 80" x 40" N scale layout that will include 32 switches, so there will be a lot of feeder drops from the track as well as feeding the frogs.
How do you guys connect your feeder drops to the bus?

[Jacktal]

Just a guess...you'll be using Peco TO's?In this case,I see frog powering as a precautionary measure,not a "has to be done" procedure.At the club we use Peco TO's and not a single one has powered frog,and we still have reliable operation.Peco TO's do fine at power routing and unless you expect harsh conditions for your layout that would prevent your TO's from being clean,I don't see this as a necessity.Don't understand me wrong,I don't feel power routing is bad...just unnecessary and time consuming,which you could use at other tasks.You will also need switching devices for this,like Tortoise motors or Snap relays (Atlas),which will increase costs quite fast.I suggest that you could plan this as a future upgrade,but it is indeed your layout and by all means do as you wish.

At the club,the guys have removed the skin (about 1/2 in.) from the bus wires and twisted the feeder around them and soldered them together.It's efficient and cheap,although not looking as crafty as junction blocks.I never counted the TO's on our layout but there are indeed quite a few which,if they were linked by junction blocks,would have cost a fortune.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jacktal

Just a guess...you'll be using Peco TO's?In this case,I see frog powering as a precautionary measure,not a "has to be done" procedure.At the club we use Peco TO's and not a single one has powered frog,and we still have reliable operation.Peco TO's do fine at power routing and unless you expect harsh conditions for your layout that would prevent your TO's from being clean,I don't see this as a necessity.Don't understand me wrong,I don't feel power routing is bad...just unnecessary and time consuming,which you could use at other tasks.You will also need switching devices for this,like Tortoise motors or Snap relays (Atlas),which will increase costs quite fast.I suggest that you could plan this as a future upgrade,but it is indeed your layout and by all means do as you wish.

At the club,the guys have removed the skin (about 1/2 in.) from the bus wires and twisted the feeder around them and soldered them together.It's efficient and cheap,although not looking as crafty as junction blocks.I never counted the TO's on our layout but there are indeed quite a few which,if they were linked by junction blocks,would have cost a fortune.

Hi Jacktal,
I agree that power routing Peco electrofrogs is not a "must".
But when I started laying track on my layout, the very first turnout I installed wasn't routing power well in one direction. This probably had to do with the Peco switch machine that's mounted right underneath the TO. When thrown by hand,
it wasn't making good contact. It has to be thrown with the switch machine for that, but those aren't wired up yet, since I first like to lay all the track, before I start with the control panel.
Anyways, this did make me think that it would be better to power route the frogs.
It's only a few bucks for the Peco SPDT switches and the turnout modification doesn't take that long when you've done it a few times.
So, not a "must" - but I didn't like to take the chance I guess..

[nbrodar]

I use terminal strips behind the control panel, and suitcase connectors everywhere else. My buss wiring is 14 ga, but I don't have any runs over 20 feet.

Nick

[Anonymous]

I was next to a guy at a show in Raleigh this past weekend who had a very nice wiring system he's making. It looks like it would make a nice, clean installation for bus wiring.

Take a look at:

www.bustap.com

(I have no interest in his business, just impressed with his idea.)

Mike Tennent

[cuyama]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kyle S.
Now, as far as the feeder bus goes; I can't see any other practical way than using terminal blocks to hock up all the power feeds I need with DCC.
<snip>How do you guys connect your feeder drops to the bus?

Wrapping the ends of the feeders around the buss wires and soldering has worked well for me. Better quality wire strippers are designed to strip insulation in the middle of a wire, not just the ends. So even if your busses are insulated, this is not too bad.

Regards,

Byron

[Anonymous]

I have 26 tortoises on my layout... I bought rolls of colored tape and color coded each turnout (or pairs for crossings)... I ran all the wires back to a central terminal block and then color coded each input.... I'm in the process of building my final control panel (have a temporary) and I'm going to further color code every switch on the bottom... Figure if something goes wrong all I need to do is look at the color of the turnout and I can easily trace the problem.... I started to DCC the turnouts but I like being able to look at a switch panel and know what direction the turnout is going at a glance....

[MisterBeasley]

I've got 19 turnouts, and I've divided them into 3 separate control panels - subway, main and yard. Each is numbered, written in marker on the foam underneath the layout. There is a small string tag (from Staples) on the wire at the control panel end. I'm using 4-conductor telephone wire from the control panels to the turnouts, which I got at Home Depot, 8 bucks or so for a hundred-foot roll.

My layout is a 5x12 foot stand-alone table, mounted on casters so I can tuck it under the diagonal ceiling when the wife or daughter tells me to. I can also rotate it 180 degrees, so the back becomes the front. To allow operations from either side, I've routed all the wires to each control panel through a common point along the center-line of the layout, which means I can move the control panel over to the other side if I want to.

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for your tips & suggestions!

Here's what came in the mail today:
I bought for 20 bucks on eBay sixty 8x2 dual-row terminals
and another 60 4x2 dual-row terminals! [:D] Nice!



Way more then I'll need, but at 17 cents a piece, I couldn't pass that up..[^]
Time to run some wires.