HO layout for comments

[zigg72md]

Here is my HO track plan for comment and/or discussion. Each figure 8 is on its own 4x8 table as is the switch yard. It has one oval suspended directly on top of the other. The upper oval extends down to the switch yard only as far as the yelow line. There are two pair of turnouts on each fig8 (for a total of 4 pair)that connect the fig8 to the lower and upper oval. This way a train can travel from the lower oval up one fig8 to the upper oval and then down the other fig8 back to the lower level without having to go backwards or change direction. I have a photo of what I already built to help explain.

The red line is a proposed turnaround that connects to the lower oval(so that I can run trains in either direction without removing them from the track) . The small blue lines are where I plan to insulate track to prevent short circuits. The switch yard is insulated on both upper and lower track. The yellow line is a graduated trestle to connect the upper oval to the switch yard. The turnouts are labled U for connecting to upper oval and L for connecting to lower oval

[dgwinup]

Need some more information. DC or DCC? Are these the ONLY insulated rails you have on the layout? It looks like the yellow line connects to the same insulated section of track as another line. Is that correct or is one track over the other? If one is over the other, where do both tracks enter on the main layout?

One related question is why do you want so much track suspended in the air? This set-up might be ideally suited for a road racing course rather than a train layout, but that is just my opinion. You end up here with quite a few reverse loops that are going to be difficult to insulate properly. You will need many more insulated gaps and a lot of electrical switches to keep things moving, and the short leads between oval and figure eights may not be long enough to prevent shorts.

Post some more information and lets see what everybody can come up with. Pictures of the other end of the layout and yard would also help.

Darrell, quiet...for now

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zigg72md
The small blue lines are where I plan to insulate track to prevent short circuits.

On the far right hand side just out of the yard you need to insullate both diverging routes of the turnout that makes the loop, not one diverging and the tail. So that means you will need to insulate the yellow track too.

[zigg72md]

First allow me to apologize for not being clear in my first post The picture is of my current layout. I am in the design stage of an expansion. I will try and answer your questions as best I can. My layout is currenty DC(the one in the picture). However I plan to convert to DCC for the expansion(hence no picture of the rest of the layout). On the expanded layout on the right side there are two tracks running from the main layout to the yard. They are on top of each other(just like the main layout). One line runs from the lower oval to an insulation gap, and then straight through to the turnout and the rest of the yard all at grade. The other line runs elevated from the upper oval to another insulation gap(directly above the first one)then goes to the turn onto the yellow track(no turnout) for the decent back to grade. Could you please explain where the extra reverse loops are at. I thought I only had two and insulated for them?(the one created by the red track and the one in the yard)

As for all the elevated track. I am trying to get two tracks into very limited space. Therefore I envisioned an elevated passenger loop. Much like the EL train in some major cities(Chicago I believe the most known example). Then a freight loop under it. Kind of my own warped version of a two track main.

If the reverse loops become too much my plan is to eliminate the red track and the connection on the lower left corner of the yard. If I do this will I eliminate all reverse loops?

[selector]

You need a run-around and a proper 'lead' in your yard. As you have it depicted, you yard is all back-in butt-end. Continue all of your butt-ends across the inside track to the outer, and you will accompli***hat....sort of. But you still need some cross-overs inside the yard.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zigg72md
If the reverse loops become too much my plan is to eliminate the red track and the connection on the lower left corner of the yard. If I do this will I eliminate all reverse loops?

If you are going to DCC, reversing loops get a whole lot easier.

[dehusman]

Reminds me of a slot car track or a amusement park ride.

Dave H.

[TBat55]

1. I think the "red line" might still be on the grade (incline). You would be better off locating on flat terrain. Turnouts that aren't level can be a real pain..
2. I'd also suggest making the right 8 the mirror image of the left 8 instead of identical. It won't affect anything except you'd see different view of the bridges when standing in the middle.
3. If you change the angle of the yard tracks, so they point down and to the right instead of left, you can use the track around the roundhouse as a lead track to switch cars in and out (classify them).

[zigg72md]

Thank you all for your inputs.

I designed the yard as I did in order to reduce the number of turnouts(for now). I will keep your suggestions in mind for my next expansion(I'm thinking a 4x16 yard and a third main layout 4x8. Maybe a point to point industrial area).

The red line is on a grade. Not sure how to accompli***he connection without having a tilted turnout. I originally had the fig8s that way. However this way I can have all the turnouts on one side(the side where I control the layout from). Otherwise the connections would either have to move to the other side or have too steep a grade in order to connect in the limited space I have. I will definatly consider changing the yard track(need to figure the operation first)

[skiloff]

So you don't plan to do any scenery?

[zigg72md]

I will do some senery. I already have a town full of buildings. But as far as a lot of trees or sculpting the land no not in the short term. The layout has to be able to be taken down and but up against a wall. Plus I am pretty new at all this. So my plan is to start small... then after a while expand to a good medium size layout of track up and running... then in a few years start to slowly build up the scenery. I do have a plan for the scenery in my head. So everything will be righT(hopefully) when the time comes.

[SpaceMouse]

Pardon me for being so bold, but it seems to me before you do any more expansion, you need to do a little research or at least some reading. What you are doing is making your current layout bigger, but that is all you are doing. You are not really increasing your functionality. Before you spend a lot of money, it might be wise to explore some options that might make your railroad a little more satisfying to operate. Otherwise, in a very short time, the freshness of the new additions will wear off and you will be stuck with a layout that does not satisfy you anymore than your current one does now.

[wickman]

you should find it quite interesting with the reverse loops ( there a real pain ) especially for as many as you have there

[zigg72md]

Ok i'm obviously missing something. As I look at my layout I see two reverse loops. The one created by the red line.(Which I am very close to getting rid of). And the connection in the bottom left corner of the switch yard.(which I will just remove that turnout and seperate as well if the red line goes). Where please are these other reverse loops?

As for funcionality. I kinda see what you mean. However I am easily amused by the smallest things. This layout will probably last for a few years if only because I spend precious little time with my train set.(maybe a two or three days a month). Plus this is a first attempt at a real layout on my part. I will take what you have to say to heart and use this layout to figure out what functions I enjoy and then when my currently unborn child is older create a really cool layout for both of us.(Yes I know I'm assuming that any child of mine must love trains...lol)

[wickman]

with the amount of realestate area your dedicating for a layout I would probably research a bit as to what you would really like to acheive as per industries scenery etc . Took me a few months to get my plan finally and I had to expand my benchwork for what I really wanted but now I'm on my way . You have a lot of room to play with there I would think about how you want to utilize it

[skiloff]

I agree with wickman. You have a lot of space that could be utilized in dozens of ways. Play with the design over and over again. Get creative and try changing everything around, maybe a shelf layout with larger sections around for looping. I would encourage you to get XtrkCad or something and just start throwing track down and seeing what you come up with.

[wickman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by skiloff

I agree with wickman. You have a lot of space that could be utilized in dozens of ways. Play with the design over and over again. Get creative and try changing everything around, maybe a shelf layout with larger sections around for looping. I would encourage you to get XtrkCad or something and just start throwing track down and seeing what you come up with.

As Sciloff sugested try playing with some rail sw I spent some time with a real guru over in AMR and did tutorial for xtrack infact there all a real good bunch of guys over there as i found out Paul Shamus has been in RR modeling forever . Here's the link for that forum http://www.all-model-railroading.co.uk/forum/index.php In fact if you go into the planning layout section with this topic I'm sure you'll quickly find out how helpful Disisme and the rest of the bunch are Disisme is always more than will ing to help yu design a plan and with the ammount of realestate your dealing with he'll have all kinds of ideas.You can even tell him I sent you LOL
Here's what we came up with for mine which I'm very happy with this was done after many many many changes were made. In fact my plan changed totally after reallizing what I really wanted and I had to add quite a bit more bench work

[robengland]

Depends on how "real" you want your railroad to be. Seems to me what you have here is a toy train layout. That's not a criticism, just an observation. If you like your layout to be a "display" for trains then this layout will serve admirably. If you want to replicate the behaviour of a real railroad then this won't be so useful because real railroads don't go round and round. What folks are saying is that you could design it quite differently with all that space to make a functional railroad-in-miniature, IF that's what you want. There isn't space to go into all that here, and there are several great books on the topic. There are classics by John Armstrong, Bruce Chubb, Ian Rice, Tony Koester...

[Tom Bryant_MR]

wickman, what size is your layout? It appears to be about the size of one I'm XtrkCad'ng on now. I can just about read the drawing but eyes are getting too old.

[wickman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tom Bryant_MR

wickman, what size is your layout? It appears to be about the size of one I'm XtrkCad'ng on now. I can just about read the drawing but eyes are getting too old.

it was done in xtrack . its 8.5' up left side 12.5' across top and 10.5' down right side I don't know any other way to give dimentions LOL . Its in HO I just put the WS risers up the right side last nite outside track goes up to 2.5" at 2 outside bridges and inside parellel track on right side rises to 1.5"

[wickman]

you may also want to get on the internet and chk this site http://www.trainplayer.com/layouts_101.htm it shows the 101 track plan book and its plans or this site http://www.all-model-railroading.co.uk/amr/index.htm if you want some insite as to how to's Paul Shamus had a hand in my plan.

[Tom Bryant_MR]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wickman

you may also want to get on the internet and chk this site http://www.trainplayer.com/layouts_101.htm it shows the 101 track plan book and its plans or this site http://www.all-model-railroading.co.uk/amr/index.htm if you want some insite as to how to's Paul Shamus had a hand in my plan.

I just spent the last hour of so looking over the stuff Paul Shamus has put out there. Really, really great. I've have the site bookmarked in my trains - "how too" section.

Thanks for the tip [:)]

[wickman]

he tends to do only logging he likes trees LOL

[SpaceMouse]

Wickman,

Your layout has improved a lot.

[wickman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Wickman,

Your layout has improved a lot.

thanks spacemouse I like it . I'm going full speed ahead
always open for suggestions though
Lynn

[SpaceMouse]

FYI,

His name is Paul Templar. Shamus is his handle on the All Model Railraoding site.

[wickman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

FYI,

His name is Paul Templar. Shamus is his handle on the All Model Railraoding site.

yes absolutely I'm so use to refering to him as just Paul