subway

[davekelly]

Leon,

Thanks for the tip! That seems to be how I remember them. Living in Texas I wish I had taken my camera the few blocks from campus to the 40th St. Portal and taken some pictures.

[Leon Silverman]

Paul Greenwald:
If you knoe about the 59 trolleys, you probably grew up in North East Philly. I grew up in southwest philly within a block and one half of the Route 13 Trolley. This PCC route did not go underground until the subway surface line was extended to 40th street, at which point all the subway surface routes used the PCC trolleys. Pre-Budd Market-Frankford Cars and Brill Trolleys crossed over the Schukill River befire going under ground. They crossed right next to the PRR tracks heading to center city along what was referred to as the "Chinese Wall".
DaveKelly:
A good approximation of the 40th street Portal would be a series of progressively shorter square boxes with concrete vents along the side about one third of the height down from each roof.

[davekelly]

Paul,

I loved riding the PCC's and thought it was way cool the way they would go from surface running to tunnel running.

Do you have any idea where I can find photos of the 40th St. Portal? I have plenty of head end shots, but can't seem to find any of the sides or back so that I can make a model of it.

Dave

[ctyclsscs]

If you look through an index of past articles in MR for Neal Schorr's South Penn Railroad, you'll find a model of exactly what you're talking about. He built two small loops under his layout so that he could have a subway car running in each direction. They stopped at a small station that was visible through a window in the side of his fascia.

I can't remember the dates the layout it appeared (there were two articles), but I think they were from the late 80s to mid 90's.

Jim

[Apennsyrrfan]

Leon Silverman said "The Market Frankford line had a smaller car that had a distinctively different shape than the Broad Street Cars. They may have been used for a while on the Ridge Avenue Spur after they were replaced by the Stainless Steel cars on the Market Frankford."

Market Frankford cars could not run on the Ridge Ave Spur (Part of the Broad St system) as the M-F is 5' or 5'2" Wide Gauge and the Broad St line is 4'8" Standard Gauge.

As far back as I can remember (born 5/45) PCC cars were used in the tunnels. I do recall the Brill cars on the 59 line from Frankford up to Castor and Cottman Aves until replaced with the "trackless trolleys." in the mid to late '50s. The older stainless Budd built cars on the M-F line (just recently replaced after almost 50 years of service) went into service in the late '50s.

[MisterBeasley]

I'll cheer for any company that produces more vintage commuter rail and particularly subway products. I would think that the R-17 might make a good starting point for building your own MP54, although they might be a bit short. (Specs, anyone?) It appears that my dear old Long Island Railroad also ran some MP54's. They ran 3rd rail, not overhead.

I really can't say for sure, but it seems to me that the R-17 production run sold pretty well. I hope that Walthers realizes the value of some of these products, and continues to introduce new items to the line.

The good photos I got, by the way, were with my film camera, which goes back to the mid-70's itself. I just can't get the lighting, focus and depth-of-field control with the digital. I will keep posting occasionally, when I get shots I think are worthwhile. (Fuzzy pictures aren't, and when you're shooting film, you can't just erase it and shoot again 10 seconds later. You don't know it's bad for 2 days.) They will always be at the railimages site, and I'll post a link in Weekend or Midweek Photo Fun when I put something new up. Buy extra tokens!

[Anonymous]

keep supplying us with pics please!!!!!!!!!!!!!, if you want to you can e-mail me, just pm me and i'll tell you

[davekelly]

Mister Beasley,

Does that mean you'll join me in hoping that Life-Life comes out with a MP54 set? Would it help if I said PLEEEEEEESE? [:D][:D][:D][:D]

Can't wait to see more pics of your subway!

[MisterBeasley]

Thanks for the encouragement, gents. Subways have been a neglected part of the MR hobby, but the Life-Like R-17s are kind of a breakthrough that should give us all something to work with without spending too big. My PCC car is a Bowser, which is also a lot of fun to drive around.

As a kid, I hardly ever saw a freight train, even back in the 50's. Suburban Long Island was already almost completely truck-supplied. The trains I remember were electrified commuter rail, but my real excitement came from riding the subways in the city. Even when I was commuting in rush hour every day, I never lost the excitement. So, now I've got my own personal mass transit system.

[davekelly]

Mister Beasley,

You're station pics are superb!!! You've lit the fire under my butt to get me back on my own subway project.

Dave and Leon,

I lived in Philadelphia while going to school (1982-1986). PCC cars were still operating in the streets on campus (at night) and went underground somewhere around 40th St. south of campus. I also remember riding the Market Street and Broad Street lines many times. Since my 'puter crashed I've lost my "favorite" links but there are a few websites with excellent pictures of the Philadelphia surface, el and subway lines.

There's a guy selling SEPTA el cars on ebay. They are non motorized. Does anyone have any more information on these models?

[Leon Silverman]

Prr67
Better Check on a history of the PTC (Philadelphia Transportation Company). Having been born in Philadelphia in 1946, I can recall when the Subway Surface Cars were Brill Trolleys that crossed the Schulkill River into center City before they went underground. The Market Frankford line had a smaller car that had a distinctively different shape than the Broad Street Cars. They may have been used for a while on the Ridge Avenue Spur after they were replaced by the Stainless Steel cars on the Market Frankford.
Switching to PCC Cars occured when the PRR broad Street Station and Chinese wall was replaced by the underground Suburban Station. The Subway Surface line was then extended underground into West Philly with two entrance points. The Market-Frankford line, which had surfaced above the Schulkill with the trolleys, was extended out underground to about 44th street in West Philly.

[MisterBeasley]

Gee, Darrell, I also grew up in the New York metro area (Long Island) and attended school in Boston (Cambridge, actually.) In addition to the R-17 subway cars, I've also got a PCC car, used all over the country, including Boston in the mid twentieth century.

The subway tiles are a hydrocal casting. I took a sheet of Evergreen "tile" with about a 2 or 3 mm spacing and made a latex mold from it. Then I poured the hydrocal in that. The first coat was a cream-colored spray paint, then an India Ink wash, then another coat of spray paint and another wash. The floor is the same process, but using flat gray primer instead of gloss cream, and with a different grid spacing.

And yes, that's the Grim Reaper. He's a Preiser guy. Not a bad chap once you get to know him. (My daughter is really enjoying the "Dead Like Me" series.)

[dgwinup]

MisterBeasley,

Having grown up in the New Your metro area and attended school in Boston, I have a lot of experience ridings the subways. Your photos were really neat! Very good looking subway station, right down to the glazed ceramic tile walls. Absolutely fantastic!

I have always wanted to do a subway station on a layout but decent (old-style) subway cars are scarce in N scale. After seeing your photos, I may just try it sometime.

A tip of the old fedora to you, as Jimmy Hatlo would have said.

Darrell, quietly underground...for now

[dehusman]

Yeah, what Mr. Beasley, did.


Prr67. The Broad Street cars were ooooold. They were maroon steel with rattan seats. They looked very similar to the cars Mr. Beasley used.

The Market Frankford line used newer stainless steel cars. Looked basically the same only corrogated stainless. The "Subway Surface" lines used PCC cars and ran under Market St from W Phillie to City Hall, and around City Hall under ground having to thread their way over and under the Broad St and market St lines underground.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

is that the grim reaper standing at one of the stations? I ( unfortunatly for my future layout) do have a cat a dog and 2 little brothers that could petentioly try and play with it or knock the table enough to make the train fall. cool i definatly make use of those pics. but i don't know where i'll find any 1955 philidelphia subway trains, not to menchan i don't know what it looks like

[MisterBeasley]

I'm building a subway. I'll have 2 stations on the edges of the layout. I didn't think plexiglass was necessary, but I don't have small children or cats. At some point, I plan to have a solid wall on hinges that I can fold up to completely seal the tunnels.

I'll be using a video camera mounted in front of the subway train, which is a Life-Like Proto 1000 R-17 set. This lets me see what's going on in front of the train. I've still got some issues with lighting on this, and mounting the camera is kind of on the back burner while I'm still concentrating on surface trackwork.

Here are a few shots of progress. The last ones are of the more-or-less finished Saint Anne Street station. The Penny Street station on the other side of the layout is only roughed in right now.

http://www.railimages.com/gallery/bruceleslie

[Anonymous]

dave thanks once again for the help, you seem to be answering every question i ask

[dehusman]

A double track loop with a clockwise set of equipment on one side and a counterclockwise set of equipment on the other. The section with the plexiglass window is either tunnel (concrete walls and ceiling, fairly dark with few lights) or station with high level platforms and lots of figures on the platforms waiting on the trains.

Shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

I'm thinking about putting a subway under my layout with a plexiglass window that could be removed, but i can't figure out how i will build it. any ideas?