Layout Draft 1 *** Version 4

[skiloff]

Thanks, Darrell. I'm looking forward to it. Its going to take a while, though, to acquire all the track. I have about 15% of it so far, but it will likely be next summer before I get it all. I'm going to work at getting the main line first, then adding the other stuff as I go, so hopefully I'll be running the mainline some time this winter. I just finished building the first 3x6 section of benchwork, so its going to be tough to wait.

Jeff, thanks for the opinion. It does concern me about those areas, so I'm considering cutting out the foam base beside those areas so it will be easier to get in there. But even at that, it still does concern me. Hopefully it will work out OK, otherwise I'll be back next year with a new plan for your review!

[rolleiman]

I know a lot of people do it but I would be Real careful about hidden staging. Not only from an operational standpoint but from a Maintainence standpoint.. Make sure that when you build it, you can get free access to it. You'll be cussing yourself (quietly if the kiddies are around) very soon if you don't.. I'm not suggesting you abandon your plan, it looks like you've spent a lot of time on it and for your stated purpose, it looks pretty good. I'm just saying NEVER assume anything when it comes to a train layout. What you think you'll never have to reach will be the most problematic area. By the way.. That 50-60 car limit, will be twice exceeded before you know it .. [;)]

Good Luck,
Jeff

[dgwinup]

skiloff, your trackplan has evolved beautifully! I think you are going to have a ball doing this one!

I am SOOOOOO jealous!

Congratulations.

Darrell, normally quiet...for now

[skiloff]

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by skiloff


I have a question, though. How do I switch the turnouts when in train running mode?

Shift-LeftClick

[skiloff]

The plan for the staging is (and I still have to do a prototype to see if it will work) is to cutaway the front and side where the two pairs of stubs are so they are open, or nearly open. That leaves the mainline with passing siding sitting back 12" with only a 4" height to reach in if trains derail. That part does concern me, though my son can reach into just about any space like that (willingly), so at this point, I'm thinking that would be OK. But I will prototype it to see if it will work, otherwise I'll have to do some rework.

Good suggestion about running an op session in XtrkCad. I have a question, though. How do I switch the turnouts when in train running mode?

[SpaceMouse]

Intereseting. I'll start with the staging. You mentioned having storage space for 50-60 cars. You should be thinking in terms of pre-built trains. Which right now you have room for 3-4 depepnding how you use the runaround on the interior of the layout.

How are you going to run those trains underneath? Is there a way to sit so you can see under there?

On the top, it is starting to shape up. I would suggest running trains in XtraCAD to see if the switching is like you imagine. Work up an operational senario and run it start to finish and see if it works like you planned.

[skiloff]

Oh, and the link is:

http://www.railimages.com/gallery/davidkilborn

[skiloff]

OK, I finally got time to "finalize" the plan. I extended my passenger station siding, as I didn't think it would be big enough for the 72' cars I eventually plan to run on it, though the Overton cars I have would have been fine. I also altered the bottom of the layout a tad to compensate for the modification and added a two-track spur that I would like to use for intermodal. The staging tracks below have been radically altered, and although it isn't perfect, I think its better than anything I've come up with so far - and it is expandable. I figured I have 50-60 car space in the staging area, and that will be enough to keep me going for a long time.

As you've probably figured out, I haven't been able to decide on an era, so I think I'll end up switching buildings to try to alter the era, depending on what I'm running. I know this isn't the best, but I love the modern diesels and I love steam. To pick one over the other is just too hard and I'd rather be non-prototypical and enjoy the trains than be prototypical and wish I had steam or diesel. Thanks for any further comments you have, hopefully I haven't done anything real stupid with these changes.

[SpaceMouse]

I used XtraCAD and 3rd Planit. It took me about a day and a half to learn XtraCAD and 3 frustrating weeks to learn 3rd Planit. XtraCAD is intuitive and easy where #rdPlanit is not.

Save your money and time and build it. You're almost there. (and I paid $104 and got the manual.)

[skiloff]

Yeah, now I want to get 3rdPlanIt and do a 3-D mockup of it. But that would be $60-80 less that I would have to actually build, whatever it costs.

[dgwinup]

Oh yeah! Oh yeah!

Looking better every time!

(Boy, am I getting jealous!)

Darrell, quiet...for now

[skiloff]

OK, I modified the visible portion slightly, adding an industry spur at the bottom left and extending the ramp down to the staging. I didn't, however, get a final staging area finished last night, so I haven't posted it. Its not much change and may not be worth looking at, but I thought I'd update it anyway.

http://www.railimages.com/gallery/davidkilborn

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by skiloff

Yeah, I'm still not comfortable with the staging area.

Chip, I think I'll play around with your idea, too with looping the other way. The reason I did it this way was for the scenic possibilities of having a trestle on the upper track cross over that loop across a kind of gorge, but I also thought of putting a trestle over the river as Crandell figured out.

You don't have to change anything on the upper level. Underneath, bring your top ramp down to the bottom and loop back up. And bring the lower ramp to the top and loop back down. Sort of forming a half figure 8 under the layout.

[skiloff]

Yeah, I'm still not comfortable with the staging area.

Darrell, that is an excellent idea about the tracks along the operator's left side and using wyes. I've stayed away from the wyes because I was going to use Unitrack exclusively, and they don't have a wye, but the more I think about a couple of the limitations of Unitrack, the more I think I'll be utilizing another brand (and likely flex track) in some areas for the flexibility. Also about the siding along the main, I've been thinking how I can work that in, because it would add some interest. I'm thinking at the corner at the high point (at the bottom left of the diagram) I could figure something out to put in there.

Chip, I think I'll play around with your idea, too with looping the other way. The reason I did it this way was for the scenic possibilities of having a trestle on the upper track cross over that loop across a kind of gorge, but I also thought of putting a trestle over the river as Crandell figured out.

And Crandell, the river may be lost while operating, but my son will be over watching that all the time, plus it will be the first thing anyone sees when entering the room, so I think it will get its share of attention. And a trestle will look really nice on that corner crossing the river.

I will do some more work tonight and come up with another version. I also need to spend more time figuring out what industries I will use so that it has some semblance of operational sense. Any suggestions there would be appreciated too! [:D]

Thanks again, all!

[selector]

I like this version better than the last.

Aside from considering what the others have suggested, I feel that your river will be lost where you have it. It is stuck out on the end, and will rarely get the attention that it will need if it is to be there at all. It will justify the odd trestle that you and She will surely want to tackle...? [:D]

[dgwinup]

I think this plan has really come together. As I understand what you've said, you would like to have a train (or trains) running on the layout while you do switching in another area, and this layout provides that.

I had a few thoughts on this. On your lower level, because of the re-alignment to bring the tracks closer to the front of the layout, you have lost some siding length. Turnouts chew up real estate in a hurry. 3-way turnouts use less space than two turnouts end-to-end. One thing you might do is to use 3-way turnouts for the first two or three turnout locations (as you travel from bottom to top). Off the right leg of the first 3-way, could you extend two stub sidings so they follow along the left side of your operator's area, rather than being in front of the operator's area? This would allow you to extend the other two legs of the 3-way, branch them into two and/or three lines each and then converge them again as you exit the area to return to the upper level. Might not make the sidings longer, but there could be more of them in nearly the same space.

This is a little hard to understand from a description. I can do a crude schematic for you, but don't know if I can figure out how to post it here.

My other thought was to add one or two sidings along the mainline. One siding for a small industry, the other to represent an interchange with another railroad. This would give the mainline train something to do, and have a place to send the loads from your existing sidings. They could be located anywhere along the mainline.

Just a couple of thoughts. If you make no changes, you will still have a great layout with running AND operating possibilities.

Darrell, quiet...for now

[SpaceMouse]

I like this a lot better.

The only problem I have is with the staging. It still is awkward the way it is set up. However, using the layout exactly as it is, instead of looping the top so tightly and going to the top of the staging yard, loop it around the bootom and come into your staging from there. Likewise loop from the bottom around to the top of your layout and come down into the staging.

You should be able to get 4-6 parallel tracks right up in the fromt where they can be reached easily.

[skiloff]

OK, Draft 2 is ready to go - http://www.railimages.com/gallery/davidkilborn

I split the lower staging into its own image to make it easier to view. I hope I received all your comments in the right way, but I'll guess you'll let me know. [:)]

[NZRMac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by skiloff

I know once I get her involved with the scenery aspects she will enjoy it more than she wants to admit!

My plan exactly!!

Looks good but be guided by the experts as above.[:D][:D]

Ken.

[skiloff]

I just thought of that, too, Chip. I'll rework the plan tonight and repost it tomorrow.

Incidentally, selector, I don't look at it as a long-term layout. I'm looking for this to get me and my family's feet wet in finally building and scenicking a layout and then in three to five years I hope to get a larger house so we have more space to build the "dream" layout. This smaller layout will also act as a demo for my wife to see what we can do as a family. I know once I get her involved with the scenery aspects she will enjoy it more than she wants to admit!

[SpaceMouse]

INstead of pulling the layout from the wall, rework it so that the staging is reacable from the front of the layout under the center of the U. This can be done without much change in the current contfiguration--just bring the ramps down from the back of the layout.

[skiloff]

No industry sidings in the below area - just a few stub ends right beside the operator which still might be difficult to switch and uncouple. I think I'm going to rework the under table staging and repost the revision. I was thinking of pulling it out from the wall a couple feet so I had rear access, but that would still be a pain.

Thanks for your comments!

[selector]

I think the plan is basically sound, but it might be a bit limited in its long-term appeal. You have most of the basic elements. I thought that perhaps that was a passing track right-most at the narrow point of your layout, but maybe I'm misreading. If I am wrong, put one up there...FOR SURE!!! It will be imperative to have at least that one so that you can do as you claim to want to do...run trains in both directions.

Another point, besides a lower right industrial spur with possibly two industries, you have no choice but to back in and pull out; no provision for running around. Might get tedious.

Finally, in order to add variety and interest to your overall plan, I recommend that you seriously work at an engine servicing facility, particularly with a turntable and small roundhouse...if you can posibly fit it in, and IF you are running any steam. Otherwise, build-in another industry elsewhere besides the industrial site at lower right. Maybe a pax terminal, siding, whatever at a village?

You should have lots of fun scenicing that layout, and then watching trains do their thing. A really good first effort.

[ereimer]

i may be wrong but it looks to me like you have industry sidings in your below-the-layout area . i think it would be very hard to switch and uncouple cars there . also the 3 foot reach to your staging tracks at the left side of the layout is way too far . you're going to have to reach into a 6" or so space , reach back 3 feet and re-rail a car ? not a chance that i could do it , and with all that other track and cars in the way ?

the visible portion of your layout is great , a bit of work on the sidings and runarounds and you'll have a very nice layout . keep it up !

[skiloff]

That is pretty much the idea, Paul. Both my son and I like to watch the trains run through the scenery but I also want to do some switching. The staging track is still the biggest concern I have with it. I know there is "theoretical" space for me to reach it, but will it just be a pain? I'm thinking it might. If I drop it another inch, I think it will be workable, but then I have to deal with the grade (its 4%at the bottom to get down there, 3% at the top). I'm debating a helix, but that would bring in other issues.

[IRONROOSTER]

This looks like a nice layout for watching trains wend their way through the scenery with a small amount of switching on occasion.
My concern is access to your staging track. Will you be able to reach all of it?, maintain it? Are you planning some track occupancy detection devices for it?
Enjoy
Paul

[skiloff]

SpaceMouse:

You are correct about the track types. The stuff under the town is the staging which I think will work as a shelf under the layout, but until I do a mock-up I'm not 100% sure about.

I never really realized all the sidings were in the same direction, good observation. I do plan on running in both directions and I have accounted for passing sidings - one starting at the bottom on the high part and rounding the corner towards the top, the second one is below the table at the staging area and the third is a smaller one beside the town. Now to think about the runaround track...

[SpaceMouse]

Much better. There are 3 types of track. Solid, Transparent and Dotted. What do they mean. I figure solid is main, transparent is sidings and dotted is tunnel.

What is the stuff under the town? Is it easy to reach?

All of your siding are in one direction. Will you run in one direction or both. IF the answer is both you need runarounds. If you plan to run more than one train, you need passing sidings.