Runaway Train Layout

[Anonymous]

I am thinking about doing a runaway mine train or, Indiana Jones style mine car layout in Ho or N. Has anyone seen one done? Im thinking a deep forest run with steep grades and wide fast turns. I know we normally do things slow but I think its time for somthing new. Some info on a high gear motor would be nice also.
Thanks

[SpaceMouse]

The Lil Guy in my signature will give any slot car a run.

[Big_Boy_4005]

The laws of physics make small scale roller coasters pretty difficult to model. You can't climb too steep a hill using metal wheels on metal rails. Scale flanges on wheels will not keep trains on the rails on a wild ride.

High speed means low torque, which only makes the problem worse.

[MisterBeasley]

I'd go with short ore cars and a 4-wheel caboose. For a locomotive, maybe a little Dockside. You might try just a dummy locomotive and have the whole thing free-ride down the hill without power (or control!)

If you add extra weight to the bottom of the cars, that will help keep them on the tracks around the curves.

[jrbarney]

Machinate,
Isn't Walthers coming out with a roller coaster amusement park ride ? Perhaps you could use that as a starting point, disguise it and jazz it up somehow. Just a thought.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Anonymous]

The low torque is not a problem considering the majority of the layout will be down hill (before any up there is a greater down). Im not thinking roller coaster fast im thinking a brisk runn through the forest. I have an old friend that designed a few rollercoasters for bush gardens so im hoping he could give me a few pointers as well. Could you send me a link to the Walthers rollercoaster?

[BRAKIE]

Chip says:The Lil Guy in my signature will give any slot car a run.
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Huh,Chip,I have a souped up 1/24th NASCAR that will rip a 110' tri oval track with dog leg in 2.8 seconds.[}:)][:D] Gotta be fast if you want to be competitive in slot car racing..[:D]
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Back to the question.I also think starting with a roller coaster would be better.

[Anonymous]

Check out http://www.coasterdynamix.com/

They currently have a O-scale version of a B&M (coaster manufacture) Inverted coaster (much like the Batman coasters at Six Flags) and are coming out with an HO scale wooden coaster. If there are going to be any negative g forces on your model, you might need to think about upstop wheels (wheels that ride on the bottom of the rails) as well as guide wheels (wheels that run on the side of the rail).

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Chip says:The Lil Guy in my signature will give any slot car a run.
=============================================================
Huh,Chip,I have a souped up 1/24th NASCAR that will rip a 110' tri oval track with dog leg in 2.8 seconds.[}:)][:D] Gotta be fast if you want to be competitive in slot car racing..[:D]
=============================================================
Back to the question.I also think starting with a roller coaster would be better.

I think you'd win, Lil Guy just doesn't corner that well.

[rrinker]

What? Lil' Guy should corner like he's on RAILS! [:D][:D][:D][:D]

You want speed, just grab an Athearn Hustler. Or one of those AHM Plymouth locos - that sucker goes so far it rolls over on corners!

--Randy

[leighant]

I am planning a roller coaster for my N scale "Island Seaport" layout. Pictures of paper mockup---



I do not think that if I built with gravity-operated cars it would run in a realistic appearing matter because, of in the words of BigBog4005 "the laws of physics". I want the appearance of old time rattling wooden coaster and engineering it for practical gravity running without probably ruin the appearance, while producing motion that wouldn't really "look right". Due to speed.

If I did want it to run at a realistic speed, I imagine I would have to have some sort of hidden chain drive. It would be even better if I had some sort of sensors to determine where it was on the track to speed up on the downgrades and decelerate on the upgrade. I am not immediately planning to do that, but maybe somebody out there is more ambitious!!!

[dgwinup]

leighant, I love your mock-up! Fantastic! What are your plans for building this? Maybe you and machinate can collaborate on this?

machinate, you're probably right about the gravity issue, but perhaps as MisterBeasley says you could put extra weight in the cars to make them descend faster. Don't know how you will recreate the 'sound' of a roller coaster...rumbling cars, vibrating structure, screaming riders, etc. Maybe a continuous loop tape? It all looks do-able. Keep up posted!

Darrell, quiet again...for now

[Anonymous]

One of the vendors at a recent show had an HO modern roller coaster ride (can't remember the name) and sad to say, it looked pretty chintzy.

Scale speed is the problem - the cars looked like they were going 300 mph. Definitely not good for the back and stomach. [:D]

I think leighant's idea of controlling the speed is the way to go. Maybe use a Z scale engine for a car, with DCC?

Mike Tennent

[jrbarney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by machinate

. . . . Could you send me a link to the Walthers rollercoaster?

Machinate,
Here 'tis.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/199-WC002
Apparently it's the same one to which Jandii referred.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by machinate

I am thinking about doing a runaway mine train or, Indiana Jones style mine car layout in Ho or N. Has anyone seen one done? Im thinking a deep forest run with steep grades and wide fast turns. I know we normally do things slow but I think its time for somthing new. Some info on a high gear motor would be nice also.

You might want to think about Tyco "Turbo Trains". These are basically slot cars that run on HO scale track. I would guess about 600 smph. They can turn really sharp 12" radius and smaller and go 90 degrees straight up after sudden grade changes. These are need steel track (at least in the curves and vertical sections) for the magnetic grip to work or else they will just fly off. You could take the streamlined "bodies" off and replace them with mine car looking things. You would have to be careful to keep the magnets in the same relative rail gripping position.

AS -
http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Tyco-Turbo-Train-7900-MIB_W0QQitemZ5992791744QQcategoryZ19140QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/TYCO-HO-SCALE-TURBO-TRAIN-W-NITE-GLOW-BOXED-LOOK-NR_W0QQitemZ5991078504QQcategoryZ19140QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Or perhaps this I just stumbled across:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ATLAS-HO-TURBO-EXPRESS-RACER-MIB_W0QQitemZ5992404676QQcategoryZ19131QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Chip says:The Lil Guy in my signature will give any slot car a run.
=============================================================
Huh,Chip,I have a souped up 1/24th NASCAR that will rip a 110' tri oval track with dog leg in 2.8 seconds.[}:)][:D] Gotta be fast if you want to be competitive in slot car racing..[:D]
=============================================================
Back to the question.I also think starting with a roller coaster would be better.

This holds the road very well and is quick http://www.leatherique.net/images/FRONT.JPG
This roller coaster idea sounds like my experience getting back into this after 30 years UP AND DOWN! Hope you figure it out. Remember that the old HOT WHEELS stuff was pure gravity, maybe garvity might work. Major problem would be FAST ENOUGH to hold banking.

Still can not post a picture!!!

[Anonymous]

My vision is of an old amusment park in west virginia. It only had two steel coal mining cars connected together. the ride was about 15min long and never went faster that about 25mph. it had long curves and only a few semi steep drops to keep the pase. the entire track was ground level slowly working its way down the mountain. once at the bottom a chain drive slowly pulled your back up to go again.
I Thank you all for the ideas. I am planing on getting two Bachmann hand cars and turning them into mine cars. I will try and recreate the came feel as my discription plus add an Indiana Jones type tunnel near the bottom. I will keep you all informed once I get started. I am finishing up a track for my newborn as we speak.

[jkeaton]

A track for your newborn? C'mon, tell us more! My toddler (20 months) can assemble his Brio tracks, but has trouble with the concept of making a full circle - apparently he's more mof a "point to point" modeller....

Jim

[Anonymous]

Is it possible to use "magnets" or mini-electromagnets" tp power the "drive" and/or "brakes" in a "free fall" set up -- thus avoiding use of "chain" or uncontolled gravity powered coasters?
Just trying to think outa the box.

[leighant]

question from dgwinup: "leighant, I love your (roller coaster) mock-up! ... What are your plans for building this?"

I saw this coaster when I was about 10 years old, didn't ride it, Mom said too dangerous, cost money, etc. It was in Galveston.
I went to the archive room of the Rosenberg Library in Galveston, found historical photographs, some from ground level, one aerial. They made me photocopies, explicitly marked "may not be copied without written permission" etc.
I went to Digital Sanborn Insurance Maps (available for Texas as a university graduate student) and got a rough plot plan that gave me at least size of the footprint of the coaster.
Drew several sketches of general layout, then a "Plan" ie. overhead scale view of XY position of track and bents. Then drew out a "length of run" with the run of the coaster straightened out on paper with length of the center line of the track across the paper regardless of how it curly-qued and the height (Z axis) on the up and down of the paper to show elevation changes, approximate grades, and clearance where one track passes over or under another.
From these I drew a rendering of each side of the structure on the computer, printed it on cover stock (heavier than standard paper, but light enough to go through printer) cut it out and white-glued and clear-taped it together.
I did this much as a "proof of concept" model to see if it would fit in my Island Seaport layout plan.
( http://www.trainboard.com/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_topic/f/33/t/000725.html )
Yes, it seems to fit.
The next stage would be to draw up a detailed Plan view showing the location of the bottom of each bent on the ground and a projection of the position of tracks onto the ground plan, then to a detailed elevation of each upright support bent. Construction of the framework would be pretty straightforward like building a trestle except almost each bent has to have a hollow place where track is running through middle of it. Not so straightforward would be figuring out how to model the track. Probably would build a few sample track models before actual project.
Roller coaster is "back shelfed" at the moment while clearing train room to begin actual layout, starting with the causeway liftout.

[Anonymous]

I was thinking about kitbashing a bachmann hand car. I was wondering what the steepest grade the bachmann gandy dancer can climb?

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by machinate
I was thinking about kitbashing a bachmann hand car. I was wondering what the steepest grade the bachmann gandy dancer can climb?

Theoretically the maximum grade of a prototypical locomotive with all wheels powered and zero cars is 25%. But the protoype numbers assume steel wheels on steel track. So for brass or nickel-silver (really brass in disguise) wheels and track, there will be a different factor of adhesion.
In addition other things in Model Railroads that lower the factor of adhesion are:
1. oily track or wheels (even residue from cleaning).
2. variance in torque from the motor (this is much less an issue with can motors).
3. any gear or drive train binding.
4. variations in the electric power supply to the motor (pulses).
Therefore the adhesion in models is ideally 0.2 but more practically close to 0.12. This translates directly to grades of 20% and 12% respectively.

Having said that, I'm afraid the only way to know for certain for a specific model is to find one and test it. Unfortunately I do not have that particular model so can not run any tests for you. Failing that it is usually wise to plan for the worst case.

P.S. I did not do these calculations. They are derived from various writings by Linn Westcott.