Track Plan #2

[oleirish]

passenger service :
Jarrell passenger service goes from town to town,maybe you could do like I did on one of my lay-outs,have an hidden track,or sideing to run the passenger trains into and bring them out later.MY 2cents worth

JIM

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12
[brRight now I'm just [%-)]and trying to sort it all out.
Jarrell

I hear that, Just spent a couple hours working out a really clean soluton to my Lumber Yard and the only trouble is I can't make get the town siding and passenger station to connect to it.

[jacon12]

Could you guys please see how I could work in passenger service on this also? Is it possible or am I going to have to take up the entire 15x21 foot room?
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Jarrell, I, too, saw immediately that you need a passing capability, a run-around if you will, and maybe you could effect that with a couple of cross-overs. Think about it, will you?

I also agree that a yard***turntable/roundhouse complex will take up a chunk of space, but am less certain that you won't get it on your new space. Just to help you for planning purposes, my 90' table and three-stall house take up a space roughly 30" X 15", excluding the approaching track. If you elect to have a yard adjacent to that complex, then you'll need that much more room.

Just a personal opinion, if I may. I feel that the symmetry imposed by the dual loops, one at each end of your layout, makes it look a bit contrived as opposed to a miniature railroad. Could you forego one end and make THAT area a sizeable yard and so on? If you do, you may free yourself to do many other things elsewhere.

"Could you forego one end and make THAT area a sizeable yard and so on? If you do, you may free yourself to do many other things elsewhere."
Ok, but how do I turn around and go the other way? I know that is probably a dumb question because I wouldn't turn around, but wouldn't that negate the continuous running that I want to keep?
Thanks for the figures on the size of the turntable etc. I hadn't realized I would need so much room!
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

On the subject of staging.

I was extremely lucky. My first space for building a model railroad changed and all my plans were no good. Why was I lucky? I didn't plan for staging. And the whole time I was thinking about my layout and running it, in the back of my mind I was thinking that it won't be long until this is boring. Going around the same old track, doing the same old things.

To the casual observer, staging just isn't that important. Just a place to store trains. True, but it is the conceptual part of what staging represents that makes it important and changes a train set into a model railroad.

Lets take a brewery as an example. Without a staging yard, you can pick beer up, and you can bring back empties. Just like the liquor store--it magically appears. But in the real world, the brewery needs hops, barley, preservatives, fuel, glass, aluminum, etc. etc. Without a stating yard where do these things come from? You could add a hops farm. But then where does the fertilizer come from for the hops. You just can't make an enclosed system that works like the real world. You have to suspend a lot of reality and give up a lot of operabilty.

With a staging yard, the hops can come from somewhere else. The diesel fuel needed at the coal mine can come from somewhere else. The town's factories can be suppled raw materials from somewhere else. And all their goods can be shipped somewhere else.

In other words, what you can do with your layout is expanded exponentially.

Even if all you can do is get a track or two under your "low hills" you are opening up a world or possibilities.

[soapbox]I'm done[soapbox]

Oh no Chip, I haven't blown off staging. I just can't figure out wheres the best spot for it. I know I need it and I'll have to work it in, but where. Now I've gone and bought an E6 A/B so I'm having to think about passenger service too.
Man, I appreciate all the advice you'll share. Just because I don't respond directly to something (like I should) doesn't mean I'm not thinking about it... Right now I'm just [%-)]and trying to sort it all out.
Jarrell

[selector]

Jarrell, I, too, saw immediately that you need a passing capability, a run-around if you will, and maybe you could effect that with a couple of cross-overs. Think about it, will you?

I also agree that a yard***turntable/roundhouse complex will take up a chunk of space, but am less certain that you won't get it on your new space. Just to help you for planning purposes, my 90' table and three-stall house take up a space roughly 30" X 15", excluding the approaching track. If you elect to have a yard adjacent to that complex, then you'll need that much more room.

Just a personal opinion, if I may. I feel that the symmetry imposed by the dual loops, one at each end of your layout, makes it look a bit contrived as opposed to a miniature railroad. Could you forego one end and make THAT area a sizeable yard and so on? If you do, you may free yourself to do many other things elsewhere.

[SpaceMouse]

On the subject of staging.

I was extremely lucky. My first space for building a model railroad changed and all my plans were no good. Why was I lucky? I didn't plan for staging. And the whole time I was thinking about my layout and running it, in the back of my mind I was thinking that it won't be long until this is boring. Going around the same old track, doing the same old things.

To the casual observer, staging just isn't that important. Just a place to store trains. True, but it is the conceptual part of what staging represents that makes it important and changes a train set into a model railroad.

Lets take a brewery as an example. Without a staging yard, you can pick beer up, and you can bring back empties. Just like the liquor store--it magically appears. But in the real world, the brewery needs hops, barley, preservatives, fuel, glass, aluminum, etc. etc. Without a stating yard where do these things come from? You could add a hops farm. But then where does the fertilizer come from for the hops. You just can't make an enclosed system that works like the real world. You have to suspend a lot of reality and give up a lot of operabilty.

With a staging yard, the hops can come from somewhere else. The diesel fuel needed at the coal mine can come from somewhere else. The town's factories can be suppled raw materials from somewhere else. And all their goods can be shipped somewhere else.

In other words, what you can do with your layout is expanded exponentially.

Even if all you can do is get a track or two under your "low hills" you are opening up a world or possibilities.

[soapbox]I'm done[soapbox]

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

Chip, do you mean the passing sidings would be 'between' the two mains, or one on the upper and one on the lower outside? (up on the 16 foot section)
I can't see where I'd have room to go to the outside of the loops with a siding but inside yes.

Doesn't matter.

QUOTE: But.. I've never put a turnout on a curve... don't even know where to buy one. Are they more 'accident prone' when on curves or does it matter?
Jarrell

They make curved turnouts, but you don't need them. You can attach to the straight on the top of the loop or going down the side. What matters is that the siding is long enough for your trains to pass.

I see you blew off the staging track. If you have a Sawsall you can install one any time. [:D]


Here's a rule that took a little while to sink into my brain:

Just cause it's on paper doesn't mean it can't be changed.

It's really easy to get a plan stuck in your head that you slaved over to get it where it is. Lots of pards have been putting out good ideas. If you have to start over to make what makes sense happen, well, often it makes the difference between fair-to-middlin and all it can be.

Keep as many druthers as you can, but don't be afraid to give one up if something better comes along.

Then again, this might only apply to me and you figured it out already.

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Adelie

I don't think you will be able to add much of a yard in the 2x4 section. Engine servicing facilities, including the turntable and roundhouse could work, if they are placed right. However, using it as a dock or industrial area with some tight curves (the land that only switchers roam) might create some possibilities.

Another thought is to switch the town and yard with the power plant and clay mining area. You could then move the back mainline track on the 16' side back a bit and fit a larger yard between the two mains, leaving room in the loop for the town. That may mean relocating the river slightly to one side or the other to free up space for the yard.

Don't apologize for simplicity, Jarrell. I'm a fan of simple. It gives you more scenic possibilities, prevents you from cramming too much track into the plan than will fit in the real thing and usually winds up more reliable. I've got a huge space I'm building in N-scale, and I kept the plan reasonably simple to avoid 1) clutter and 2) creating a maintenance monster.

Mark, the river isn't cut yet so it can go anywhere later. I had thought about moving the two mains on that upper section apart but hadn't thought of putting a yard in there. I'll have to think that one over. Switch the town and the mine... hmmmm... maybe that would work. I'll move some things around and see what happens.
Thanks for the help, Mark.
Jarrell

[orsonroy]

Chip's right about the passing tracks (or at least runaround tracks); you'll need one at each of your three switching areas. The one at the coal mine area should also serve double duty as the local "yard": someplace the mine switcher can shuffle cars.

Speaking of the mine, you shouldn't need the lower two stub sidings, unless you're planning a second mine there. MOst mine trackage is relatively simple (and double-ended, but we generally don't have space for that). Stick with 2-3 simple stub sidings heading into the mine.

YOu definitely don't have room for any sort of yard where you've got it marked. If you REALLY want a yard, go with a 2'x5' peninsula jutting off the top left corner of that 4x8 addition. Start the yard lead about where you have the word "8 feet", and you should be able to get 4-5 shortish stub tracks and a servicing area onto the 2x5.

Other than these observations, it looks fun! Of course, I sorta liked your last plan too...

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I've been studying your plan for a little while. I think the biggest improvement you can make is to add three passing sidings. If you were to ignore your bridges, you could put two of them in the long straights at the top. I said that as a point of reference. Now slide the bottom one to the right and around the corner. Slide the top one left around to the middle of the loop. The third could go to the right of the bottom loop and curve around the bottom. This will increase your operational abilities and give you runarounds for setting out in your industrial sidings. In addition, if a couple of your pards come over, you can set them up each with a train, two running one direction and the other going the other direction and have fun working your way around the track.

Besides you can park your trains there. [swg]

If I was really ambitious, I'd put a turnout on the top of the upper left loop and drop down through the hills, under the coal mine loop around under the town back around along the front of the layout, under the clay mine to a staging yard. I would enter from under the coal mine side and exit back up under the clay mine forming a reverse loop.

You'll increase your operations significantly without a lot of work or floor space. Sounds like a lot of extra work, but remember there is no landscaping structures or scenery.

Chip, do you mean the passing sidings would be 'between' the two mains, or one on the upper and one on the lower outside? (up on the 16 foot section)
I can't see where I'd have room to go to the outside of the loops with a siding but inside yes. But.. I've never put a turnout on a curve... don't even know where to buy one. Are they more 'accident prone' when on curves or does it matter?
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ereimer

1) LOL this is becoming the railroad that ate the basement !
2) don't put the brick factory next to the clay mine , they probably wouldn't use a railroad if they were that close
3) 2x4 is very small for a yard , turntable and engine house . i suggest looking at manufacturers websites for the size of the turntable and engine house you're considering to see how much room they actually require . even better , if you've decided which ones you want to use , buy them and mock it up

I can already see the handwriting on the wall, it's gonna end up taking the WHOLE room!
The reason I thought of the clay mine and brick mfg is my wife works for one and the factory is on the grounds about a 1/2 mile from the mining pits. So, now I need a place to ship the bricks to. I'll have to ask her what type business' and where. It'll probably be modeled 'off' the layout.. you know... north of here or somewhere similar.
Well let's see... I need more space for the yard, huh. Hmmm... I could extend that lower table along the wall another 4 feet or so I guess. That would make the table 4 feet by 12 feet.
Jarrell

[Adelie]

I don't think you will be able to add much of a yard in the 2x4 section. Engine servicing facilities, including the turntable and roundhouse could work, if they are placed right. However, using it as a dock or industrial area with some tight curves (the land that only switchers roam) might create some possibilities.

Another thought is to switch the town and yard with the power plant and clay mining area. You could then move the back mainline track on the 16' side back a bit and fit a larger yard between the two mains, leaving room in the loop for the town. That may mean relocating the river slightly to one side or the other to free up space for the yard.

Don't apologize for simplicity, Jarrell. I'm a fan of simple. It gives you more scenic possibilities, prevents you from cramming too much track into the plan than will fit in the real thing and usually winds up more reliable. I've got a huge space I'm building in N-scale, and I kept the plan reasonably simple to avoid 1) clutter and 2) creating a maintenance monster.

[SpaceMouse]

I've been studying your plan for a little while. I think the biggest improvement you can make is to add three passing sidings. If you were to ignore your bridges, you could put two of them in the long straights at the top. I said that as a point of reference. Now slide the bottom one to the right and around the corner. Slide the top one left around to the middle of the loop. The third could go to the right of the bottom loop and curve around the bottom. This will increase your operational abilities and give you runarounds for setting out in your industrial sidings. In addition, if a couple of your pards come over, you can set them up each with a train, two running one direction and the other going the other direction and have fun working your way around the track.

Besides you can park your trains there. [swg]

If I was really ambitious, I'd put a turnout on the top of the upper left loop and drop down through the hills, under the coal mine loop around under the town back around along the front of the layout, under the clay mine to a staging yard. I would enter from under the coal mine side and exit back up under the clay mine forming a reverse loop.

You'll increase your operations significantly without a lot of work or floor space. Sounds like a lot of extra work, but remember there is no landscaping structures or scenery.

[ereimer]

1) LOL this is becoming the railroad that ate the basement !
2) don't put the brick factory next to the clay mine , they probably wouldn't use a railroad if they were that close
3) 2x4 is very small for a yard , turntable and engine house . i suggest looking at manufacturers websites for the size of the turntable and engine house you're considering to see how much room they actually require . even better , if you've decided which ones you want to use , buy them and mock it up

[jacon12]

Ok.. thanks Chip and Jim. I see right off the bat I've got to rethink placement of the yard. I think what you're both going for is more room for it and I'd get that by going to either the top loop area or the bottom. One day right after I had the benches up I took some track and turnouts and laid out a 4 track yard just for fun and I was surprised at how much space it took up!
Jarrell

[SpaceMouse]

Just a couple size issues. You might have a tough time getting much of a yard where you have marked dock. The same could be said for where you have the yard marked. No you could get a reasonable yard if you switched where the yard and town are and turned the yard 90 degrees to stub into left side of the loop.

[oleirish]

Jarrell:
Sence you are scraping your other plan,I belive I would put the 2X4 on the left side where you have the POWER STATION, If you can,where you have it temp now just looks out of place IMHO.IMHO 2X4 is going to be a little tight but think it can be done??

JIM

[jacon12]

Good Morning all!
I've scrapped my original plan of a looooong incline and a mountain for logging, it was taking up way too much valuable space that I wanted for other things. I have added 4 more feet to the table (bottom of this plan) making that table 4x8 feet now. I'm thinking about adding a penisular (the blue gray area) for either a yard or docks. I really need the yard worse.
I know its a simple plan and I've yet to build my first layout so I need your input as to how I'm doing so far.... SO! if you would, look it over and let me know where I'm going wrong and what I've got right so far. I do want long mainline running for those times (and they are many) when I just want to run trains. I also want enough switching to keep me interested of course.
If I added the penisular (2x4 feet) would I have enough room for the yard, an engine house, turntable etc? Is this a good spot for it or somewhere else? Anything you can think of will be appreciated!

I did this on the Atlas free program and I know everything isn't lined up exactly but it will give you the idea. OH... there is access all the way around except along the back edge which is the very top line and the right most line.
Jarrell
P.S. Gotta go out of town this morning so I may not get to answer any questions til later today.