adding real water?

[Anonymous]

What is the best way to add real water to an HO layout? my plan is to have a small stream leading to a pond, waterfalling to another pond, and pumped back up.

[DSchmitt]

The best advise is don't do it.

Real water does not scale well, it won't look right.

Real water attracts critters and may result in problems with mold, algae, and/or bacteria.

Real water will increase the humidity in the train room.

Still if you really want to do it, this site might help:


http://www.ida.net/users/tetonsl/railroad/water.htm




Real water is difficult to keep contained. Leaks can cause all kinds of problems.

[selector]

Hoooooo, Boooyyyy! I wouldn't even think of it. Water is reactive, and will cause you grief at some point. As DSchmitt says, it will require special care to keep it clear, and if humidity is likely to be an issue for your benchwork at certain times of the year, water will only make things worse. Also, the flowing water will look much more hokey than those little shelf fountains that gurgle and trickle at the local hotel lobby. It will not 'scale' out well; it'll move much too fast for the scale of the model.

[Anonymous]

Not to mention the fact that water and electricity don't mix! [:0]

[Anonymous]

Oh, sure they do. Water's a great conductor. hehe.

QUOTE: Originally posted by GrayLoess

Not to mention the fact that water and electricity don't mix! [:0]

[Anonymous]

I see lots of layouts at shows and I've never seen one with real water that didn't look hokey or contrived. It just doesn't work.

Rather than use a gimmick, spend some time developing the traditional techniques for modeling water and then build that killer water scene. You'll have a layout to be admired.

Mike Tennent

[Anonymous]

the layout is 3'x4' and im building it in my newborns room. I wanted to add real water to keep it interesting since it is so small. I feel I can resolve some of the scale problems by adding more in the path of the water.

[Anonymous]

Hey, go for it. It's your layout.

We just want you to be aware that there are more problems than you might think.

Have fun.

Mike Tennent

[davekelly]

Also keep in mind that algae will soon show itself and that will be a maintenance headache. Another thing to keep in mind is what you are going to use to contain the water and still have realistic looking scenery. Depending on where you live, evaporation could become a problem and many water pumps will burn out if there isn't water running through it. I live in West Texas and am amazed at the amount of water that evaporates from my aquariums.

I would suggest that before you try it on a layout, make up a small diorama to see if the real water works for you. This would save some major renovations to the layout should you not like the results.

[ham99]

And move the baby to another room. Water and electricity! Not to mention the molds and bacteria that will accumulate.

[Anonymous]

I can recall 2 layouts in MR that had water. One was Harry Clark's Indian Creek Valley in the 80's (this was like the first issue of MR I'd ever seen as a kid).

Another was someone else in the 90's. The guy in the 90's said he drained the water out, and only filled it up when he had visitors due to algae, etc.

[ahuffman]

If you're set on real water, you might consider looking at what the water garden people do. They have Ultraviolet Light units to kill algae and bacteria in the circulating water. Years ago, a model railroad written up in MR and built in a partially excavated basement had real water lakes lined with concrete. He used copper sulfate in the water to keep growing things down.

[davekelly]

ahuffman,

Good point about the uv clarifier. I have one on my outdoor koi pond/water garden. It does an excellent job of killing algae and supposedly other bad things in the water. Algae does still exist though. The UV is great at killing algae that is in the water, thus clearing the water, but algae can still grow on the sides of the pond. On a pond it adds to the look, but I'm not sure that it would be good in a model railroad setting. The copper sulfate solution sounds interesting, but with kids around, is the stuff hazardous if swallowed?

[MisterBeasley]

Copper sulfate is poisonous, to algae, fish and people. Of course, a lot of the paints, glues and other stuff on a model railroad probably are too. I don't think it's a problem with an infant, but as soon as they're mobile, you've got to keep the little ones away from your trains.

[nobullchitbids]

I agree with the general tenor: Bad idea. While water, itself, is NOT an electrical conductor -- distilled water is an insulator -- the salts commonly in it are conductive, so that is a problem. Also, if the water gets near the track or circuitry, eventually it will corrode them. And yes, it will look hokey, because the laws of physics don't scale down with our trains.

Water is what we call a "polarized" solvent -- because the hydrogen atoms join the oxygen atom at an angle, a water molecule has a positive and a negative side. That is why water beads up on a hard surface, and why insects such as water striders literally can walk on it. Reduce the scale of everything by 87 to one, but the water molecules have not shrunk a bit -- they still want to behave like their full-sized selves.

If I were set on having flowing fluids on my layout (and I'm not), I would not use water but opt instead for a non-polarized solvent. Unfortunately, all of these I can think of are poisonous and not the sort of stuff I would trust near an infant. Furthermore, containment probably would be even more of a problem, even without evaporation, and evaporation well could cause health problems to any working in an enclosed area.

There are better ways to add interest to a layout.

[Anonymous]

ok no water for me.

[Derailedtoosoon]

If you want more reinforcement to the sensible opinions shared here, take a trip to Strasburg,PA and visit Choo Choo Barn. All The negatives are well represented on their commercial layout. They even added live gold fish, presumably to reduce mosquitoes, which makes the effects even less realistic. I did enjoy their burning house scene. Visit early so there is plenty of smoke!
My wife tried a fountain on her Christmas village one year. Sure glad Christmas does not last long. Checkout Woodland Scenics water simulation products.

[DSchmitt]

Real water works on outdoor G gauge layouts and I have seen it ised successfully on a G gauge layout that was the centerpiece of a shoping mall.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DSchmitt

Real water works on outdoor G gauge layouts and I have seen it ised successfully on a G gauge layout that was the centerpiece of a shoping mall.

Yeah, but that's G, which is probably not what was in the original plan for the baby room.

[dave9999]

I have done it. I made a cascading water fall that emptied into a pool. It then ran off of
the layout into a bucket. A pump in the bucket pumped the water back to the top of
the waterfall.

After I had the plaster shape I wanted, I covered the entire area that would have water
running over it with paintable silicon. I never encountered any leaks(none that I was aware of anyway).
I bought the pump in the garden center at Walmart, along with the tubing. I disguised the tube
at the top of the waterfall with rocks, so the water appeared to come from inside of the rocks.

The water was not at all to scale. I even had rocks in the flow to try and break up the water
but it still looked wrong. I made sure the water was all drained from the layout after I was done
running it, so algae wasn't a problem... BUT, I dimantled this layout shortly after, so I can't
say that algae wouldn't have become a problem in the future.

It was fun building the water scene, but I doubt I would ever try it again. The end effect wasn't
what I had hoped for and it was a lot extra work making sure all of the water was dried up every
time I used it.

On the other hand, It was peaceful listening to the water trickle down as I was working on the layout.
Good luck, Dave

Also, this layout was in a closed-in patio area, so I wasn't concerned with water on the floor. With
carpeting it could become a problem.