Fastening track down

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nscaleboy

StmEngr Posted: 31 Jul 2005, 13:43:17 Quote

Posts: 21
Joined: 30 May 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
There is a well known Kalmbach (N scale) book that uses this method on a foam surface:
On a glued down Cork roadbed the track is initially held in place with Atlas track nails. The author then places ballast in place with water /glue mixture. He claims the ballast/water/glue mixture, once dried, is adequate to hold the track even after the nails are removed.

This is the procedure that I intend to follow.

Could this be a mistake?

Jim


Sounds like a good idea, and i have tried it, ONLY THING IS what do you do if you find a trouble spot and u just go and ballast the track while your laying it?

I'm doing precisely that for my layout. The thing is, you ballast the track at the tail end of your construction.

1. Lay track.
2. Run trains.
3. Build scenery.
4. Ballast track.

This will give me plenty of time to work out all of the kinks in the trackage before it's permanently secured to the layout.

Mark in Utah

[selector]

I agree, Jim. That is how I ballasted my track; doing everything else first, and ballasting last. Worked very well.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nscaleboy

Sounds like a good idea, and i have tried it, ONLY THING IS what do you do if you find a trouble spot and u just go and ballast the track while your laying it?

The often "recommended" procedure is the save the ballasting for the last step, after the rest of the scenery (or bulk of it) is done and the track has been soldered and extra feeders added (if that is how you choose to do it) and the track has been throughly tested. I'm new to this but that is what I've gleaned from the forum and additional reading.

Jim

[Anonymous]

StmEngr Posted: 31 Jul 2005, 13:43:17 Quote

Posts: 21
Joined: 30 May 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
There is a well known Kalmbach (N scale) book that uses this method on a foam surface:
On a glued down Cork roadbed the track is initially held in place with Atlas track nails. The author then places ballast in place with water /glue mixture. He claims the ballast/water/glue mixture, once dried, is adequate to hold the track even after the nails are removed.

This is the procedure that I intend to follow.

Could this be a mistake?

Jim


Sounds like a good idea, and i have tried it, ONLY THING IS what do you do if you find a trouble spot and u just go and ballast the track while your laying it?

[robengland]

Latex caulk.

If you do use glued-down ballast to hold track as proposed by StmEngr, I've read that PVA glue tries hard and hence transmits noise. Matte medium can be diluted in the same way but dries flexible hence less noise. I can vouch for the fact that 2" foam can really "drum" with no plywood under it.

[howmus]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

I use latex caulk to fasten the roadbed to my foam benchwork, and to fastent he track to the roadbed (I use the Woodland Scenics foam roadbed). It works great, it's fast, it's easy, and it's cheap.
--Randy

I used your method today for a small switching layout I am making for a Webelos presentation on Model Railroading next week. It works absolutely fantastic. Thanks Randy!

[fire481]

Thanks for all the great input. I am rethinking the nails but may use them in one section and actually try a couple of the other ideas. I would like to add that this is once fantastic forum because of the quality of the people on it. I would never hesitate to throw aquestion or response on ere for fear of being ridiculed. Thanks again

[aartlib]

AMI it and forget it..Really great stuff and 1,000,000 other uses afterward.

Art
SFP&P..in the desert sun

[robert sylvester]

Fire 481: The NO glue method, plus other ways.
Like many of the folks reaponding, I have used just about every method to secure track to my road bed. I have used cork and WS road bed, attached the track directly to the blue or pink foam with diluted glue, nailing it first just to hold it then remove the nails.
Now, track nails will work with cork and WS roadbed, even on foam. Right now I have thirty feet or so of track just nailed to 11/2" topper tape, that's the tape you get at Lowe's or Home Depot that goes on the walls of a pick-up truck bed where you attach the camper tops. And some of the track is just attached to cork with nails. I am experimenting with both. No glue or matte medium, just dry ballast that I collected from the streets in the neighborhood where the cars run over it all day long creating a fine ballast of many colors. Remember, de-magnatize it first.
The track adheres to the topper tape, it's sticky on both sides, and it actually holds the track in place, and you can remove the track if you wish. I have placed dry ballast this way for years, no glue, just like the real railroads. If fact one pike was that way for 12 years, no problems. I could clean track with an abraisive bar, then put Labelle 101 oil on the track and run trains. It kept the wheels clean and creats good electrical contact with the engines.
If you want, try AMI's roadbed on some new areas. The track really adheres to that roadbed, and when you place the ballast on the track just press it with your fingers, the ballast sticks right to the AMI roadbed, again no glue.
You can also use double sided sticky tape, one side attaches to the foam then lay track right on top.
Finally, I have talked about this before, Paul Delfino of P+P Lines describes the steamer method. You buy dry powered glue, mix it with the ballast then spread it along your track and spread it with a brush, then you take a steam Iron and run it along the track and steam your powered glue and balast mixture, it will hardened and hold the track in place.
Experiment with different methods, you will eventually find a ballasting process you like and are satisfied with.
Rob
WTRR
Hub City Division

[Anonymous]

Another vote for nailing, ballast, then remove the nails.

On my latest (and maybe last) layout I've laid 1" fom over 3/4" plywood, with cork roadbed on top. Ive used the standard track nails to hold it in place. This allows me to fine tune the track as I "run it in" to get it PERFECT before I glue it in place by ballasting it.

Since perfect trackwork is the basis of a good layout, anything that prevents us from getting to perfection should be pushed aside.... Does that mean that I need to be pushed aside???

Mark in Utah

[Seamonster]

QUOTE: There is a well known Kalmbach (N scale) book that uses this method on a foam surface:
On a glued down Cork roadbed the track is initially held in place with Atlas track nails. The author then places ballast in place with water /glue mixture. He claims the ballast/water/glue mixture, once dried, is adequate to hold the track even after the nails are removed.

This is the procedure that I intend to follow.

Could this be a mistake?

This is the method I use on my N scale track. I use HO track nails. They don't go into the plywood so they're easy to remove and reuse, but hold tightly in the cork. I can get them tightly against the ties without distorting them. I don't have to pu***hem through the ties but can install the beside the ties and let the L-shaped head hold down the ties. And if I miss any afterwards, their black colour blends right in with the ties.

[ham99]

I have always laid my track with loose track nails, so that after it is fitted I could raise it enough to slide the cork roadbed into place. Then ballast, spray with 91% alcohol, glue/water mix applied, and when it is dry -- pull the track nails. The glue mix has always held everything in place. And it is easy to recycle when I want to change the track plan.

[siberianmo]

[2c] on he subject, go with the caulk. My rather large HO layout has over 500 sections of Bachman EZ track fastened this way AFTER I found that even careful nailing did more harm than good (as previously discussed). The track was "caulked" directly to the wood base of the layout.

I also have a smaller S-gauge layout where I'm using S-Trax from SHS (roadbed included). That track is fastened directly to the foam insulation board used for the base.

In both situaitons, the caulking worked extremely well.

Good luck!

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BXCARMIKE

Is it possible to mount track right on foam without roadbed, I want my sidings to have a low, buried in dirt and weeds profile?

Yes, just be certian to sand the glossy slick surface off the foam.

I have a nichrome wire cutter in a roadbed profile that I used to just cut the roadbed right into the foam. The only issue was the noise. The track directly on the foam can make it act like a drum head and not only transfer sound but seemed to amplify it. Noise isn't usually an issue on sidings.

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by StmEngr

There is a well known Kalmbach (N scale) book that uses this method on a foam surface:
On a glued down Cork roadbed the track is initially held in place with Atlas track nails. The author then places ballast in place with water /glue mixture. He claims the ballast/water/glue mixture, once dried, is adequate to hold the track even after the nails are removed.

This is the procedure that I intend to follow.

Could this be a mistake?

Jim

Could be just fine. I've never tried it that way. The nice thing about caulk is it is tacky enough to hold right away without having to stack books on it or drive nails - on curves I use a few push pins to keep things in place until the caulk sets up (about an hour), just so I don't accidently shift things around. On straight sections I don't even do that much, except at the end of a section of roadbed to keep it from curling up.
The caulk I have comes out of the tube white but dries clear - makes it easy to see when it's dry - the white goes away.

--Randy

[MisterBeasley]

Another vote for Latex Caulk here. Great stuff. And the voice of experience says that if you make mistakes, as I have, it comes up pretty easily.

Bxcarmike, what you might try is using a sheet of N-guage roadbed, which is lower. If you want to, though, I see no reason you can't glue the track right to the foam.

[Anonymous]

Is it possible to mount track right on foam without roadbed, I want my sidings to have a low, buried in dirt and weeds profile?

[Anonymous]

There is a well known Kalmbach (N scale) book that uses this method on a foam surface:
On a glued down Cork roadbed the track is initially held in place with Atlas track nails. The author then places ballast in place with water /glue mixture. He claims the ballast/water/glue mixture, once dried, is adequate to hold the track even after the nails are removed.

This is the procedure that I intend to follow.

Could this be a mistake?

Jim

[orsonroy]

Nails will not hold in foam, period. Neither will anything else except for some type of "glue" (and I've pretty much tried it all).

Of all the adhesives I've used to lay track onto foam, latex caulk SEEMS to be the best. It's cheap, dries quickly, adds a sound deadening layer between the track and foam, and once dry, won't hold onto the track so tightly that you destroy the track if you need to move/remove any. Silicone caulk works OK too, but smells and some brands hold TOO well. White glue will work, but doesn't give you much sound deadening. Wood glue holds too well also. I've heard good things about Aleen's tacky glue, but haven't tried it.

[selector]

Fire, please reconsider. As Randy has suggested, and he has lots of experience (as do others who favour his method), latex caulk, spread thinly and then having the track pressed down into it, is the way to go. According to many who have tried the nailing methods, you end up with track out of gauge and broken ties, etc. It is just too finicky.

[rrinker]

I use latex caulk to fasten the roadbed to my foam benchwork, and to fastent he track to the roadbed (I use the Woodland Scenics foam roadbed). It works great, it's fast, it's easy, and it's cheap. And you can easily remove the track if you want to change things or make a mistake, without ruining the track. 1 tube of caulk should be more than enough to do all the roadbed and track on a 4x8 layout - you only need a VERY thin bead, and then spread it out with a putty knife. I did nearly an entire 8x12 on 1 tube, all I need to complete yet is my yard area.
This is hands down the best overall method of fastening sectional and flex track I have ever seen.

--Randy

[fire481]

I am to the point of securing my track to roadbed. I would like to use 1.5 inch nails to do this. I have tried an area and it seems to work fine. I an using WS track bed on blue insulation board. I really prefer not to gule it down . the road bed is glued down. Any thought from this board will be greatly appreciated. GENE