Insulated frog - possible problems?

[Anonymous]

As I am building new layout I am installing larger switches on it. No. 10 on main lines. These switches have long frogs and they obviously are unpowered in DCC. My locos are big too mostly six-axle diesels. I am wondering how big of a deal can unpowered frogs be on those large switches. Unless I absolutely have to, I don't want to do power routing on the frogs [:)]

[rrinker]

I'd think a #10 unpowered frog is going to cause power pickup problems. That's a BIG hunk of unpowered track there. I'm getting away with it so far with #4's and #6's, but I'm preparing to wire up the frogs anyway. I looked at a #8 and there's no way I would leave that unpowered
What are you using for switch motors? With a Tortoise it's a no-brainer to wire up power to the frog.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

Belive it or not, I won't be using any switch machine. I'll do switching manually. I don't do much switching on layout anyway, rather I like to run long (50 car) trains, thus such large switches. Is there a way to make powered frog if I don't have switch machines?

[Leon Silverman]

Manual operation still involves some kind of linkage movement. Connect that linkage to a slide switch that will change the polarity to the frog. There has been recent articles in Model Railroader Magazine on how to do this.

[rrinker]

Yup, the slide switch is a great method, gives a positive lock in each direction, plus has the contacts you need. If you are going to use something like the Caboose ground throws - you can attach a 'whisker' through a hole down under the throwbar that pushes a lever-action microswitch, giving you a set of contacts to power the frog.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

Well, I actually tried it. Put a No 10 switch with non-powered frog. Even my Altas AEM-7 goes through it without hickup. I guess since the other truck still stays on powered rails it if good enough? [:)]

[mcouvillion]

dimastep,

Caboose Indistries makes a ground throw with an integral SPDT switch. I installed over 50 on our club layout to power the frogs of every switch. There are three leads from the SPDT switch: the center one connects to the wire to the frog, the one away from you connects to the bus for the away rail, the one near you connects to the bus for the near rail. Make sure that you have insulated the two rails from the frog from the two routes leading to the switch, and you are done. No biggie! Once you have done one or two, you will realize it is very simple and quick to do.

Good luck,

Mark C.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mcouvillion

dimastep,

Caboose Indistries makes a ground throw with an integral SPDT switch. I installed over 50 on our club layout to power the frogs of every switch. There are three leads from the SPDT switch: the center one connects to the wire to the frog, the one away from you connects to the bus for the away rail, the one near you connects to the bus for the near rail. Make sure that you have insulated the two rails from the frog from the two routes leading to the switch, and you are done. No biggie! Once you have done one or two, you will realize it is very simple and quick to do.

Good luck,

Mark C.

Will the contacts on the Caboose Industries ground throw handle the relatively high current that comes with the use of DCC? Since some of those boosters can put out 5 to 8 amps, it seems that the contacts might have a tendency to fry. Anybody have any comments? Do you need to connect the Caboose Industries contacts to a relay to do the switching?

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your help guys! While thing resolved for me now without the need of powered frog it is still good to know how to do that kind of stuff with manual switches.

[Leon Silverman]

WetumkaFats:
I would not worry about the current carrying capacity of the ground throw contacts unless you plan to stall a Bowser T-1 on that frog. The ground throw contact has to handle only the current draw of the locomotive that is actually on top of the frog. Unless you intentionally short out the frog, it will never see the full capacity of that booster.
Current heats up wires, but not instantaneously. Consequently, unless you stop the engine on the switch, the current flow will only be momentary and not have a chance to heat up the contact. This is why solenoid switches have to be powered by momentary contact switches. The current necessary to activate the coil will burn it up if it is left on for more than a second or two.

[mcouvillion]

Wetumka Fats,

It is extremely unlikely that you could ever draw all the current the power supply could deliver through the contacts of the SPDT switch to the frog of a turnout. The large power supplies are designed for multiple engines (actually, motors) on a large layout, not a single large motor. The single small motor in an engine draws little current and itself must be able to stand up to the current it draws. Look closely at the windings of any small motor - all the current it draws MUST pass through these, unless it is internally shorted, and then it isn't working. The contacts on the Caboose Industries ground throws can easily handle no-load switching, and then carry the load of a single electrical motor over a short section of rail.

Mark C.